The Syndicate

Matt wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:DH, Matt didn't play Death Note.

Lol.

Sorry, that made me laugh that you came in here and that's all you responded to.

Could I convince Marmot to vote Marmot if nobody else will?

Linki - Dh - Hmmm. Guess you did. Wow, sorry, tired.

Linki - MM - I'll quote you later. There was more then just that one post about "confirmed civvie"...like I said I'll make it a point to quote my findings in a bit.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:DH, Matt didn't play Death Note.

Matt wrote:I think it's pretty conclusive that MM is bad.

Dom literally demonstrated all the traits of the responsible rolechecker he talked about in that quote I found.

From one day to the next, he went from "So what's the case on MM?" to "MM is bad. MM is bad. MM is on my suspect list. MM is on my suspect list."

Rico/DH/anyone else who refuses to lynch MM - Why don't you want to take the word of the role checker? Why?

Thank you for pointing out your understanding of my frustration, DH, but at this point, I'm beginning to think anyone who willfully ignores the ALARMING AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE against MM based on Dom the rolechecker...is bad. Seriously. Even Rico.

Anyway, I'm off today and tomorrow, and plan on doing a full fledged ISO on MM. I doubt anyone will read it, however after reading the first two or three pages of his ISO the other day, I realized something...

When crazy night 0 Rico was fake sussing Zebra, do we all remember who went balls to the wall defense of Zebra?

Oh, it was MM? Hmmm...food for thought.

Ricochet wrote:Ooh, ooh, Matt, your ISO did help... remind me of something.

Can we go back and trace the "LC trusted Wilgy" claimers and, like, lynch their asses? (If we can toDay, that is. #lotteryticketwinSorsha)

Matt wrote:

Just roaming the Syndicate, trying to find some insight for my Justice League game I'm working on, and found this effin' beauty right here...this is literally like a miracle find...

Spoiler: show

Dom wrote:Here's my take:

Info-Dumping that doesn't make things 1000% certain is a-ok. If you didn't out yourself in the process, and it allows a certain degree of uncertainty, then you're okay. The reason this uncertainty is important to me is that if someone says, "Look, I know <Name> is bad!" and you are... it's often at a point in the game where you can't say anything to save yourself, where with that information, it's now painfully obvious that you are bad. This absolutely ruins the game. In addition, if that player has played a spotless game previously, they wonder why they bother to play in the first place if that's how it's gonna go.

If you can role check and you find someone bad. Find a reason to lynch them. Get at them. Don't hesitate. Don't reference your role check. I don't know about you guys, but back in the good ole days of Mafia (raises Mafia cane) this was just accepted. You didn't out people like that, and if you did, there was a stigma attached to it. This seems to have disappeared over the years.

I'm not okay with someone with a role-checking role, right after the Night Post going "Okay, we should lynch <<Name>> because they are bad." I have seen this lately. I also don't think people with civ BTSC should be painfully obvious about their BTSC. You can be cute in the chatroom.

In terms of referencing messages sent between players, I remember in the Hobbit, Llama and I communicated with a message, and very subtlety confirmed it in thread. I used a word/phrase he had sent me (or vice versa) to confirm.

MM, a few times I believe you've asked me why Dom didn't immediately suss you on Day 6. Well, there's your answer per the underline.

Let's also keep in mind that it was what, Day 5 when Dom started asking about you and what the case against you was? So we can assume he wasn't really paying attention to you all that much. Yet, by Day 6, he listed you as bad twice and put you on his suspect list...twice. So a total of four times referencing you as bad. A day after he had no idea what the case on you was.

Here is Dom "trying to find reasons that MM is bad" as opposed to just saying "Yo MM is bad peeps! I know it!"...

Dom wrote:My thinking you are bad is linked to two main things:
1) you admitting you aren't civ
2) your latching on to me. if you are truly neutral, why are you so concerned with lynching me?

Dom wrote:

Ricochet wrote:What should a neutral role do, if he shouldn't care about voting/lynching anyone?

Why is Marshy so attached to the idea of lynching me? Why has he voted me early in the last two phases and only moved his vote to save himself? Why am I a "suspect"? Marsh claims to not be playing for anyone really, but that can't be the case if he is attached to "suspicions" like this. It makes no sense. He also cannot cite evidence of my baddiness. People are literally saying it's suspicious because I want to know why I'm suspicious and you don't find that strange?

Dom wrote:I think you are a baddie who thought they found an easy lynch.

Below, we will see Dom "allow a certain degree of uncertainty" on MM, as Dom advises a responsible role checker to do...

Dom wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:@dom, you answered your own question. You asked what evidence I've brought forth, and you followed it up with the evidence I've brought forth.

You also stated a suspect list with my name on it. Ok, what is your case against me?

I know you're not happy that I've claimed neutral, yet am suddenly casing you. Whether such actions would benefit me or not are is my own problem. You can't decide that for me. You can decide whether to believe my claim, but based what you have said since that point, I have no reason to see that you don't believe me.

....I literally have argued that you aren't behaving like I'd expect you to if you were truly neutral. I posted about it a lot. Selective memory or bad?
Can't tell.

Can we please lynch him now town? I mean, did you read the miracle find at the top of this post? That golden Dom quote about info dumping? I mean, wow.

Please. Lynch Marmot 2016. Every vote counts!

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:ffs Matt

Really? That is your response?

Are you even civ? Like, for real.

Btw, not that anyone gives a hoot, but Dom said he thought juliets was civvie twice, so I'm inclined to trust her despite saying "wasting" a night kill. Derp.

It's Day 9, there are two mafia teams near-confirmed, I want to hear multiple suspects, not the same loop.

Matt wrote:Rico, I don't know if this helps...

But after ISOing Wilgy last night, I came to believe he and Lorab were def on a team (if there are two teams). I'll post quotes in a bit, just woke up.

It sort of doesn't, because Wilgys and LoRab are both dead. Suspects that are still alive should be preferably named.

My suspect list...

MM -

Drac - Once town wises up and lynches MM, we can lynch Drac for being his teamie

bea - Possible Wilgy conspirator

Mac - Possible Wilgy conspirator

motel - Possibly Kubrick.

And ummm it sort of does, I would think? If we can decipher who is on what team, then we can try to decipher polls better and all that jazz?

Linki - DH - Lol, no response to the Dom thing? I must be going out of my mind.

I'll be roleclaiming Mr Invisible now...going to find those quotes despite it "not helping"...

Ricochet wrote:Zebra was a civ alignment corrupter. What if there's a Godfather type role on the other team?

I don't feel like dismissing anything anymore, after seeing a non-Kubrick role that could also survive one lynch be revealed... like, crazy. We should have had at least 10 extra civs to deal with this voodoo mafia designs.

bea wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I mean do you think the Wilgy/Sorsha connection is false, and that he was frustrated to be dragged down due to her. Sorry for any confusion.

Crap. Sorry. I really missed the mark. Idk if the connection is false. I could see how you got there in the first place. I honestly thought it was more Sorsha budding than anything at the time. I do feel he was genuinely frustrated. I'm seeing that more as he thought he was drug down for the wrong reasons if that makes sense?

Sorsha wrote:BIH Wilgy

I'm still not bad, just really good at trusting the wrong people. Same thing I did in TH Mafia.

I'm fine with a motel lynch today... Still think Draco is bad though.

bea wrote:As in he was genuinely frustrated. Yes. He read genuinely frustrated to me. In hindsite it reads like a baddie who was genuinely frustrated because they felt they were accused for the wrong reasons.

juliets wrote:I don't understand why they wasted a night kill - we were about to lynch him.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:God I'm so smart.

Did you kill DrWilgy?

MacDougall wrote:Putting my vote on sorsha for now. I seriously have no defense, I know what's going to be said against me so you can just vote me and I won't even argue.

S~V~S wrote:I did. Did you read the post?

TH is still out of town. Day 10 will be 24.

Linki, yup.

MacDougall wrote:Sorry I doubted you DH.

MacDougall wrote:Get fucked

MacDougall wrote:OI DOWN HERE CUNT

MacDougall wrote:
Here are the best reasons for Draconus.

1. Top of LC's scumlist
2. Last major breadcrumb left by HB before he died
3. Major suspect of Dom
4. Obvious buddying of DH, Metalmarsh and Ricochet
5. Earlier scum read of DH now resolving in buddying, scum read disappeareth!
6. Is just voting for whoever DH votes for
7. Hasn't made any of his own cases
8. Has compelling teammate connection with FZ
9. Told me to fuck off, how rude!
10. I read him scum early in the game and I am legendary at that

MacDougall wrote:RIGHT HERE LOOK AT THIS LOOK AT THIS LIST MOTEL LOOK AT IT

MacDougall wrote:OI DOWN HERE CUNT

MacDougall wrote:
Here are the best reasons for Draconus.

1. Top of LC's scumlist
2. Last major breadcrumb left by HB before he died
3. Major suspect of Dom
4. Obvious buddying of DH, Metalmarsh and Ricochet
5. Earlier scum read of DH now resolving in buddying, scum read disappeareth!
6. Is just voting for whoever DH votes for
7. Hasn't made any of his own cases
8. Has compelling teammate connection with FZ
9. Told me to fuck off, how rude!
10. I read him scum early in the game and I am legendary at that

Metalmarsh89 wrote:DH, Sorsha isn't on the poll.

MacDougall wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

juliets wrote:LoL. And fair enough DH I'll wait until we're at a better time.

I mean, that's how I read you right now. If I get the chance to hop off my soapbox RE: Sorsha and Wilgy, maybe once I read you over again you ring true and civ to me. Dunno.

I said stop it.

juliets wrote:LoL. And fair enough DH I'll wait until we're at a better time.

MacDougall wrote:It's cool guys I figured out that you were scum together you can stop this distancing schtick.

juliets wrote:Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.

FZ. wrote:Did I mention how this is not fun at all?

Wigly, any idea why you survived?

DH, I hate your never ending smilies. It doesn't help convince me you are right. If you think I'm bad, it doesn't matter, but if you believe I'm good, please stop making people feel stupid for not seeing things the way you do.

Honestly, I don't know who is bad, and I don't really care any more. I shouldn't have agreed to fill in, because I have real life issues that are messing with my life right now, and I don't think I'm good at figuring things through right now. I thought they'd get better, but they didn't. If the baddies can just kill me tonight, that would be really nice, because I doubt I can be replaced at this stage.

Ricochet wrote:I might just need some alcohol in order to ketch-up on the last page of DH-Wilgy exchange.

So far, gut tells me one of the players who felt better about Wilgy after his rebuttals, but uncertain or anxious about the result of yesterDay's two-wagon lynch, used a lynch pardon. Don't ask me to what effect, because I currently don't see it.

Can we lynch Sorsha tomorrow? Her ISO is almost entirely malign, at least from where I'm standing. We've hounded Wilgy and Draco yesterDay and they've both replied in some defensive fashion. If Sorsha is bad, she just took the Day off yesterDay, watching the two wagon unfold. One could argue she simply sided with her teamie Wilgie, but my point is, she was under no equivalent pressure or test yesterDay, the way our other suss's have. Let's pressure her.

DharmaHelper wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:@Mac just for you I'm gonna work on congregating as much of the Wilgy stuff as time allows.

Thank you based DharmaHelper.

Mkay this is just the recent stuff, don't have time/can't be bothered to go and do a complete re-read analysis of Wigglesworth McBaddiefart.

Our tale begins Here with the Boomslang flip. In the presence of my pestering, Sorsha makes this post, which is as textbook a distancing post as you could possibly ask for. She and Wilgy realize that I'm hot on the trail and are a bit too eager to start the distancing/damage control. I've already made several points as to why I believe Sorsha to have panicked so I won't reiterate that. Suffice it to say my working theory is that their team had some clever lynch shenanigans in place to cover Wilgy's ass and they didn't think anyone would catch on but your boy DH is woke.

Here Doc Wigglepants addresses Sorsha for a second before immediately pivoting the conversation. As Mac and I have discussed, this sort of thing is an indicator of distancing. Here he makes what I assume to be a jokey post saying Matt and Sorsha could be teammates. Doc feel free to clarify, but I don't recall you giving this any serious consideration.

In compiling this post, I've come across an interesting exchange between Wilgy and I that starts with that post. He asks me about my thoughts on Draconus, which I give him. This is important because as we'll see later, he's full of shit.

After the Night post Wilgy is, it seems, in the camp that Sorsha is good. Despite the post I've highlighted earlier, which shows Sorsha pretty solidly bussing her boy Wiggles.

Here he is openly rallying Sorsha to kick her ass into gear. Where did the enmity between them go?

And that's when we get to Dr. Wilgy's super bullshit, which I've previously highlighted and debunked Here and Here

Some of my problems with his B.S post:

- He completely made everything up, which I illustrated with like, less than 10 minutes of looking through my posts.
- He accused me of having a cavalier attitude towards Drac suspecting/voting for me, and yet after Sorsha literally bussed him he's rallying to keep her in the game? Lol ok.
- He completely ignores my new leads on Sorsha, instead focusing on Day 3 leads which he didn't even represent correctly.

Long story short:

- His reaction/Sorsha's reaction after pressured after the Boomslang flip
- Sorsha bussing him unnecessarily, and his cavalier reaction to it.
- His patently false post in which he puts forward absolutely zero facts.

Cool?

DrWilgy wrote:I haven't done anything making me Sorsha's teammate!

Why am I being judged for an unconfirmed actions?

DrWilgy wrote:Ok how about this.

I think there's a chance we can push LYLO back if we lynch Sorsha. It's not as great as a chance as lynching Drac, but a chance I'm willing to take if it means not lynching me.

If Sorsha is bad, I'll accept my lynch hoping that her death pushes lylo far enough back. Is that acceptable? Based on the way the votes were stacked yesterday, I'm leaning towards there being two teams. If we hit a baddie tomorrow, my death can happen and we still may be able to win.

Linki - Define bullshit vs wrong. What makes you think that post (since it's so game determining) is bullshit rather than wrong?

DrWilgy wrote:DH your arguements for me have all been on the premise of something that isn't alignment indicative, and based on the actions of others. I've refuted them multiple times and I've contributed to the thread with ideas that you've ignored.

Right now we have:
Marmot, who is a self proclaimed 3rd party that we will never be able to differentiate between civvie and baddie.
Motel, who doesn't even have an ISO worth looking at because he lurks too much
Sorsha, whos reactions and logics were false and indicative of being a baddie (who you think is my teammate)
And Drac, who is the fluffy buddy parrot machine 9000

So why me? Your actions don't make sense on the exception that:
1. You are bad
2. You're too arrogant to think differently, or at least ponder on other thoughts.

And I'm hoping it's not 1.

DrWilgy wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Did I out myself? What was my definitive outing?

When Sorsha flipped on you for an innocuous post that only mention her in passing. Sorsha's doing, not mine.
When your reaction to that flip was "Relaxxxxx...." Yeah, because I thought I upset her and didn't mean to. Besides if I were telling a teammate to chill in the main thread vs. BTSC what sense would that make?
When the pair of you ping ponged between "painfully obvious distancing" and supporting each other See the point above.
When you crafted that bullshit post without checking any of your facts. And I was incorrect. You showed me that. Isn't that the point of the game? Make cases, judge info based on what you know and discuss? I don't see how me being incorrect is alignment indicative.

You are bad. You did that to yourself.

@Rico, look at LC's interactions with me after JJJ was spared. What would LC know about me, that no one else would, that would cause that reaction after someone who he thought was bad was spared?

The point of a fuck up is that you fucked up.

Fucking up isn't alignment indicative!

DrWilgy wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Did I out myself? What was my definitive outing?

When Sorsha flipped on you for an innocuous post that only mention her in passing. Sorsha's doing, not mine.
When your reaction to that flip was "Relaxxxxx...." Yeah, because I thought I upset her and didn't mean to. Besides if I were telling a teammate to chill in the main thread vs. BTSC what sense would that make?
When the pair of you ping ponged between "painfully obvious distancing" and supporting each other See the point above.
When you crafted that bullshit post without checking any of your facts. And I was incorrect. You showed me that. Isn't that the point of the game? Make cases, judge info based on what you know and discuss? I don't see how me being incorrect is alignment indicative.

You are bad. You did that to yourself.

@Rico, look at LC's interactions with me after JJJ was spared. What would LC know about me, that no one else would, that would cause that reaction after someone who he thought was bad was spared?

Matt wrote:MM - I just counted. 23 out of 50 of Dom's posts on Day/Night 6 were about you or addressed to you. That's nearly half. I'm not going to count for every other player he mentioned, but I'm sure you beat everyone in which player had the most mentions by Dom that day.

And that's besides the fact that in several in those posts, he plainly called you BAD and/or put you on his suspect list. He even told town to get a refund on you.

I'm really trying to drop this for now, but you keep pushing. Fine.

Explain Dom checking you, getting indy, then calling you bad and telling people to get a refund on you. Explain how that makes sense.

Also, just thought of something...Who's to say that Dom wasn't vote blocked that day, and that's why he didn't vote? If I recall, Dom is like DH in that he pretty strictly follows the rules, so I don't think he's the sort who would've come in at N6 and been like "Yo I was vote blocked sorries".

But yeah. Explain Dom checking you, getting indy, then calling you bad twice, putting you on his suspect list twice, and telling town to get a refund on you. It doesn't mingle. It wasn't "frustration", he clearly called you bad several times.

What he did NOT do was check you, get indy, and then call you bad. Either he didn't check you and just thought you were bad or he did check you and knows you are. There is no "oh he checked me but thought I was indy". No. Impossible. I won't believe that.

DrWilgy wrote:Did I out myself? What was my definitive outing?

Matt wrote:Making a deal with the mafia?

Dude, I've already said I'm voting Wiggles tomorrow. But if MM starts to actually get votes, you bet your ass I'll switch to Marmot.

Linki - And there you go. Even people who think MM are bad don't want to vote for him (juliets, drac). So Wilgy it is.

Linki Linki Linki

DrWilgy wrote:If you are civ and really that arrogant, I'm ok with us losing.

I'm looking forward to you deleting your acct DH.

I'm sick of defending myself here's a rainbow list for ya DH, consider it a preffered lynch order:
Mac
Bea
Matt
FZ.
Juliets
DH
MM
Motel
Sorsha
Drac

Linki - There's a difference between compromising and being rational. I can only try so hard to turn this game around for us before I lose my cool. I think I just lost it.

juliets wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Matt wrote:Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

I can't kill anybody or pardon anybody, or even properlu lynch baddies. Why does no one believe me?

Because Dom the rolechecker said you were bad.