The Syndicate

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 9:31 pm I believe MP+7 will not be a problem with a prompt enough vote, because Spacedaisy is there to nudge him. And I would not count that as any kind of BTSC even during closed BTSC time. It's just sensible.

So, if a Not Guilty verdict comes up, is the common practice to create juries that contain none of the original four?

When I played, if we ever got a FAIL/NG we went to a completely different team composition for the next mission.

EdJou wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 8:56 pm A float? I don't like parades.

A float meaning if there are criminals on that team, the criminals decide to vote Guilty, hiding to strike in the later rounds.

Round 1 is almost always going to be a Pass for the civ team, the question then becoming "Do we ride with the team from Round 1 into the next rounds" and then "Who do we add onto the later rounds"

I predict a float, but that's just me.

>Guys DH Is Bad Because He Wants Us To Rush Into Things
> No I don't I literally said the absolute opposite of that
> Guys Lets hurry up and get a team approved
> Wait isn't that rushing into things?
> DH I'm not going to argue with you I'm just going to hide and vote.

>Don't Rush Into Things Guys Thats How the Criminals Win
> Second Team Ever Proposed Gets to A Jury Vote.

To be fair the only person I 100% take issue with being on that team is Daisy for obvious reasons. MP finally showing up and dropping a vote to approve the team could be seen as suspect, but I'm not entirely convinced it is.

Scotty I'm on the fence about but leaning OK.

Ed I'm comfortable with.

So if no one on that team is bad, or the bad person(s) on the team float, that'll be our first of 3 Guilty's.

Looks like we're getting a jury vote.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 8:12 pm If this does end up going through without sprityo, I want to hear what he would have done before we cast our votes. I think it’s important.

I agree with this at least.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 8:11 pm the closer we get to passing, the more ominous feeling I’m getting

EdJou wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 6:10 pm Despite the conflict above, I think you should put Daisy up.

Yeah I dunno about that but I'll take your word into consideration.

Hi Ed and Nutella.

Looks like sprit is last to vote. If he sinks this team by holding to his previous disapprove vote, I'll get to make my team. Either of you have any suggestions of who to put on/leave off?

Too many lurkers.

Oh there's MP.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:36 pm I literally quoted you DH. You are going to deny saying something that I literally quoted you on. And when you said it, I was so shocked I actually asked you to clarify to make sure I understood you right. So there is no denying what you said.

I'm not going to argue with you, I'm going to just go back to observing and voting. Civilians, I don't recommend putting DH on your juries when you are head juror.

Making judgements based on no information about who to put on your/other teams before mission 1 has even been run certainly doesn't seem like "rushing into things" at all

Y'all asked for me, remember that.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:20 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:36 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:35 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:30 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:28 pm Ok, so do you guys know some simple strategies we can use?
It's tough cuz I don't want to spill too much of the beans and give criminals a leg up but it would be beneficial to get as many team nominations as possible.
Please clarify what you mean here.

Linki: Would anyone care if I turn off the linki for this thread, this is freaking annoying...
Seeing who people put on their team is very helpful, The more Head Jurors we can get to nominate teams, the more we can learn about who may be Criminal.
Right here DH. Right here. Civilians don't have any info. If this were the second round I might be more inclined to more carefully choose the jury. But in this first round, the people who benefit from seeing lots of jury nominations are the criminals.

OK So,

If you can explain to me how "the people who benefit from seeing lots of jury nominations are the criminals", that would be great.

If you could explain to me how "Seeing who people put on their team is very helpful, the more head jurors we can get to nominate teams, the more we can learn about who may be criminal," is anywhere close to "lets rush into things" that would also be great.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:36 pm I literally quoted you DH. You are going to deny saying something that I literally quoted you on. And when you said it, I was so shocked I actually asked you to clarify to make sure I understood you right. So there is no denying what you said.

I'm not going to argue with you, I'm going to just go back to observing and voting. Civilians, I don't recommend putting DH on your juries when you are head juror.

You literally quoted me saying "Lets rush into things and not take our time and gather information?"

Or you literally quoted me saying "The more information we have, the better for finding out who is Criminal"

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:27 pm I never said anything about feeling bad about you buddying or whatever. That's Scotty, I'm just calling out a bad strategy for what it is.

I never said anything about you saying anything about you feeling bad about me buddying or whatever.

And you're not calling out a bad strategy, you're saying I said something I didn't say and that your solution to what I didn't say is the thing you find suspicious.

Fuck me for being helpful I guess. Yall want Negan you're about two seconds from getting him :P

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:20 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:36 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:35 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:30 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:28 pm Ok, so do you guys know some simple strategies we can use?
It's tough cuz I don't want to spill too much of the beans and give criminals a leg up but it would be beneficial to get as many team nominations as possible.
Please clarify what you mean here.

Linki: Would anyone care if I turn off the linki for this thread, this is freaking annoying...
Seeing who people put on their team is very helpful, The more Head Jurors we can get to nominate teams, the more we can learn about who may be Criminal.
Right here DH. Right here. Civilians don't have any info. If this were the second round I might be more inclined to more carefully choose the jury. But in this first round, the people who benefit from seeing lots of jury nominations are the criminals.

HOld on, so my suggestion was "more careful" or was it "rushing into things?"

Anyway, since there's no "stop gap/hammer" for jury selection I can see some merit in approving at least a little quicker than normally, but the way you're explaining your umbrage with my plan is confusing as shit.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:17 pm You didn't say we need to get into a trial as quickly as possible though DH. Don't hide the truth here. you said that the best thing is to see as many jury compositions as possible. And basically pushed the idea of letting everyone put one together. You are rushing people into a bad strategy is my point.

You have me colossally confused. I didn't say we should rush into things, so you suspect me for rushing people into things. So your solution is what? Approve the first jury that hits your desk, i.e, wait for it, RUSHING INTO THINGS?

Y'all are gonna keep fucking around with me and turn me back to the old me

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:14 pm You want to rush us into assembling and voting to approve or disapprove juries quickly before the real discussion of best strategy could start imo. That is rushing things.

I am not saying we need to immediately approve this jury or should have approved the first, but I do not like the idea of letting every player assemble a jury before we finally consider approving a jury. And you are saying that seeing as many jury compositions head jurors put together that we can is better for the civs. But I don't agree.

No I don't.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:12 pm
“I’d rather get a read on people who are here” is an entirely different reason than “it’s a matter of expediency”

But that’s fine. You do you. I just offered that team as a suggestion to see what you liked or disliked

"Don't be rushed, think it through" - Spacedaisy

"Lets let everyone, or failing that as many people as possible, get a team together so we can pick apart who picked who for their teams and learn some stuff before we jump into a mission and potentially royally fuck ourselves." - Me

"That seems suspicious we should just approve a team very quickly without much thought why would you push a strategy centered around rushing into things DH" - Daisy.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:02 pm Also, constantly disapproving teams in this first round is giving an advantage to the criminals. They already know who each other are, they are trying to figure out which one of the civilians also has that information. I recommend not rushing your votes and not being keen to just disapprove through everyone's jury in this first round. The less information we give to the criminals the better. We don't get any information until we get the first result from a trial. I am moving slow intentionally, I don't trust the people rushing us with unwise strategies.

fwiw I play Resistance too. And there is a huge difference here. In Resistance, some of the missions take more than one person to fail. It's easier to sort out how to identify the baddies and more difficult for them to hide. Here it only takes one Not Guilty to lose any trial for us. And we have five trials and they have five members. This is not Resistance or Avalon guys. They only need one of their guys on three of our teams to win. In all likelihood this first trial will come back Guilty because the jury only will have four members. It will be harder to hide their member in four than in five or six. And it's also more likely we get lucky and hit a team with no criminals in it in my opinion.

Don't be rushed, think it through. That's my advice. I agree with Scotty, I don't trust you right now either DH. You are the biggest culprit of pushing this strategy and rushing things.

Huh? How is giving everyone a chance to assemble a team (and therefore getting an idea maybe of who the criminals are based on team compositions, approvals/disapprovals, people popping up on multiple teams etc) rushing things? Isn't "Hurry up and get a team through and start a mission" literally the definition of "rushing things"?

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:38 pm In the interest of expediency, I’m instituting a 12 hour deadline for players to vote if they are chosen to be in an approved jury. Non-votes will be counted as abstentions, and will not impact the verdict.

Cool beans.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:39 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:37 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:32 pm Looks like the 12 hours is just to pick a jury not give a verdict.

But I don't think we should we trying to play the slowest game of Avalon in history either.
Sure, I don’t either, but I don’t know what DH really intended with omitting Mp.

What do you think of putting Mp on, Golden? If time was a non factor
Why do you have a hard on for putting the guy on a team?
It’s not that I necessarily want him on my team, it’s that you (and to an extent golden) didnt. That’s the strange part

No no no no no no no son, you don't get to piss down my back and tell me its raining :P

Whats the deal with you putting MP forward on *my* team and going at my after I took him off because I'd rather get a read on people who are here?

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:32 pm Looks like the 12 hours is just to pick a jury not give a verdict.

But I don't think we should we trying to play the slowest game of Avalon in history either.
Sure, I don’t either, but I don’t know what DH really intended with omitting Mp.

What do you think of putting Mp on, Golden? If time was a non factor

Why do you have a hard on for putting the guy on a team?

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:32 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:30 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:28 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:26 pm
When all of the jury has finished voting, the outcome of the trial will be revealed. A unanimous vote is required to reach a Guilty verdict
That's why, Scotty.
What’s why? I don’t see anywhere that mentions a time limit. MP will eventually get around here, and vote. Then the results will be revealed
*eventually

Linki - Its a matter of expediency for me, he could be good, but it doesn't do me any good to fuck around and wait to find out.
You prefer to rush into things, eh?

Duly noted. I’m rejecting whatever mission you propose

I dunno if I said that, I think I'd rather just not wait three days for a single person.

If MP checks in and is like "Hey lets goo" I'm good to put him on my team, but if he's not going to be around, why would I bother?

Put him on your team(s) if it gets to you. No skin off my nose.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:28 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:26 pm
When all of the jury has finished voting, the outcome of the trial will be revealed. A unanimous vote is required to reach a Guilty verdict
That's why, Scotty.
What’s why? I don’t see anywhere that mentions a time limit. MP will eventually get around here, and vote. Then the results will be revealed

*eventually

Linki - Its a matter of expediency for me, he could be good, but it doesn't do me any good to fuck around and wait to find out.

When all of the jury has finished voting, the outcome of the trial will be revealed. A unanimous vote is required to reach a Guilty verdict

That's why, Scotty.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:22 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:20 pm I think Golden made a good point. I wouldn't want him on a team if he's busy.
Why should he being busy make him a bad person on the mission? There’s no time limit to vote on a jury

Unless you both know something I don’t

[mention]insertnamehere[/mention] Am I misunderstanding or do all team members need to vote for the mission to be over/resolved?

I think Golden made a good point. I wouldn't want him on a team if he's busy.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:08 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:02 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:01 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 2:59 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 pm Once this gets unapproved, I got the team for you, DH. So buckle up
OK, who?
Me, Golden, speed, and MP
Literally why would I assemble or approve a team
A) I'm not on
B) MP is on
Told you to buckle up.

I'd maybe pull MP out, put me in, not sure what I'd do with Chuck. But you can stay and I've got no problem with Golden yet so that can stay.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 3:01 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 2:59 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 pm Once this gets unapproved, I got the team for you, DH. So buckle up
OK, who?
Me, Golden, speed, and MP

Literally why would I assemble or approve a team
A) I'm not on
B) MP is on

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 pm Once this gets unapproved, I got the team for you, DH. So buckle up

OK, who?

4-5 currently in favor of scrapping the team.

RIP MP

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 2:27 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 2:18 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:52 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:46 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:40 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:23 pm
However, I don’t think I want a team with you on it.
Why
Because I’m getting an off vibe from you this game, like you’re being all helpful and buddy buddy and it’s makijg me uncomfy
I'm trying to be helpful because I want to win, and I have some experience with this game that a handful of other people seem to have, but I would say a good majority of us don't. I wouldn't call myself an expert or a master of the game or anything but I know some tips and tricks that could mean the difference between me sitting on a pile of garnets or me being eliminated. So yeah.
I hear you. I’m just having trouble marrying this you to past you. It could just be i need new glasses, or I’m just highly guarded at first with some people. You could be good, I dunno. I just don’t trust you off the bat
Same reason you're not traipsing about this game threatening to eat people unless they give you a garnet.
What’s the same reason?

As to why I'm not swinging my bat around this game.

New game new rules is my point.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:52 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:46 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:40 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:23 pm
However, I don’t think I want a team with you on it.
Why
Because I’m getting an off vibe from you this game, like you’re being all helpful and buddy buddy and it’s makijg me uncomfy
I'm trying to be helpful because I want to win, and I have some experience with this game that a handful of other people seem to have, but I would say a good majority of us don't. I wouldn't call myself an expert or a master of the game or anything but I know some tips and tricks that could mean the difference between me sitting on a pile of garnets or me being eliminated. So yeah.
I hear you. I’m just having trouble marrying this you to past you. It could just be i need new glasses, or I’m just highly guarded at first with some people. You could be good, I dunno. I just don’t trust you off the bat

Same reason you're not traipsing about this game threatening to eat people unless they give you a garnet.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:40 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:23 pm
However, I don’t think I want a team with you on it.
Why
Because I’m getting an off vibe from you this game, like you’re being all helpful and buddy buddy and it’s makijg me uncomfy

I'm trying to be helpful because I want to win, and I have some experience with this game that a handful of other people seem to have, but I would say a good majority of us don't. I wouldn't call myself an expert or a master of the game or anything but I know some tips and tricks that could mean the difference between me sitting on a pile of garnets or me being eliminated. So yeah.

We have no information.

You NOT approving a team with you on it is very different than me APPROVING a team I'm not on.

Mostly because I will approve every team until we get past the first mission.

Having an early team get through without having a great many nominations restricts information. If I were like, the 5th or 6th or 7th Team Leader I would approve my team no questions asked but I'm 3rd so there aren't many nominations before me. I want to see who everyone nominates or failing that as many nominees as possible. That's information. Blindly approving teams runs the risk of the criminal team putting up a big ol' stinker.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:29 pm It's 4-4 right now. If Daisy votes yes, It'll be 5-4. If Golden and Sprit hold to their previous votes it'll be 5-6 with the jury just missing.

Yes dear reader, I did excuse Mp's vote because I doubt he will vote.

It's 4-4 right now. If Daisy votes yes, It'll be 5-4. If Golden and Sprit hold to their previous votes it'll be 5-6 with the jury just missing.

However, I don’t think I want a team with you on it.

Why

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:16 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 12:08 pm I will approve (starting next vote) Any team that does contain scotty but does not contain Speedchuck
Why me? And why speed?

You voted to approve a team I was on so I'll do that for you, and Speed voted to approve a team he admitted would be more likely to fail if he was a civ.

EdJou wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 8:38 am I nominate
EdJou
M Plus
Scotty
Daisy

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 10:21 am [VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: APPROVE] aubergine

Any team with you on it (if you are town) it statistically more likely to win than a team without you on it

Fun that you voted to approve a team that (were you a town/civ player) would be statistically more likely to fail.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 1:04 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 12:04 pm
Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 11:46 am Put me on your team, @DharmaHelper , and I'll approve it.
I wasn't even planning on approving my own team
Ew. Virtue signalling, anti-town play. Any team with you on it (if you are town) it statistically more likely to win than a team without you on it. This is not ideal play. It just is supposed to look good.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 12:08 pm I will approve (starting next vote) Any team that does contain scotty but does not contain Speedchuck
Ew. Arbitrary choice, anti-town play. Because I'm town.

As Luke Skywalker once said, "Wow, Impressive. Every word you just said was wrong."

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 12:53 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 12:04 pm
Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 11:46 am Put me on your team, @DharmaHelper , and I'll approve it.
I wasn't even planning on approving my own team
Why? You should pick a team that you would approve then.

Well I'm like the 3rd team leader, so not a lot to go on once I get my picks. Anyway, I may approve my team now that I know for sure there's no auto-team thing.

EdJou wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 12:49 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 12:08 pm I will approve (starting next vote) Any team that does contain scotty but does not contain Speedchuck
Convenient timing.

I did my number crunching and guesswork after your nominations.

Meh, without any form of hammer I may start approving teams just to move things along and get a baseline of some info.

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