The Syndicate

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:43 am i don’t know how to read epi

He is a hard one but I have found him as town the last few games I played with him where he was town so I should have known that since I couldn't find him this game he was scum. Then again, my uncertainty along with some other players doubtfulness led me to check him.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:31 pm Well, either way, this was a really fun game. I am glad I decided to peep my head into The Syndicate, and I definitely can see myself playing here again!

You MUST!!! You were awesome!

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:28 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:23 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:20 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:43 pm Also is there a scum chat link
I'm curious about this too. I love reading through all relevant chats after a game.
Sounds like they deleted it Sean, lol.
Oh, I thought that was a joke:/ Oh well...

Maybe it was but knowing LC I'm betting not haha! @JaggedJimmyJay is there a scum chat for us to read through?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:20 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:43 pm Also is there a scum chat link
I'm curious about this too. I love reading through all relevant chats after a game.

Sounds like they deleted it Sean, lol.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:50 pm Congrats town! Excellent use of your cop check jules! Had you pegged as town 5 posts in Queen !

Ty dunya - I just want to point out tutuu and Marmots jib thingy got us Made and Hally led the group in nailing LC! And Sean was the one who convinced me to check Epi. It was a real team effort!

Oh yes @JaggedJimmyJay your flavor was awesome - meant to say that sooner!

I'm sorry it's over even tho I probably would have died tonight.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:43 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:42 pm @Long Con why did you kill TSP?
We knew it was likely he was a one-shot, but we couldn't take that chance.

ok gotcha.

@Long Con why did you kill TSP?

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:34 pm i swear to god i was so terrified this entire day that i was making some huge mistake

every time i saw @nutella watching i was thinking to myself “god she probably has the game solved and is just roasting me rn”

lolol - you were key to the win Hally!

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:29 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:28 pm Epi, @Long Con and @Made good game. LC this is why I always have to keep in mind that you are slippery! You are very good at it!
Are you making fun of me?

Lol no I am complimenting you.

Yes @JaggedJimmyJay thanks so much. So nice to meet our newest players too!!

Epi, @Long Con and @Made good game. LC this is why I always have to keep in mind that you are slippery! You are very good at it!

OMG it's over and we won????

EBWOP: "and that's the last one I remember"

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:26 pm I've still never once seen scum Juliets.

I really want to see scum Juliets one time.

lol, I was scum with Dizzy and sabie and Michelle in a game maybe a year ago? And this the last one I remember. We won but all the townspeople said the game was broken.

Has LC named some games where he was town? I'd like to check them for a statement like that. I'll look in his ISO.

I wish I could answer the question of why Made moved from Guillo (town) to MR late in EOD1.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:28 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:43 am I've read your analysis Hally and it is quite good. I still will look at LC myself, here and hopefully in another game. I will be interested to hear LC's replies to your points.
Assassin's Creed is the one where Epi and I are bad together. Also the one where I self-voted to win the game. Just one of a couple of brilliant and masterful Long Con-crafted wolf wins from the year 2020.

Ok cool I'll revisit that. Also there were a couple of posts Hally just quoted that made me think you were town when you posted them.

I've read your analysis Hally and it is quite good. I still will look at LC myself, here and hopefully in another game. I will be interested to hear LC's replies to your points.

I'm having trouble even considering Hally as scum.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:17 am the thing is, although epi favors not bussing as wolf, lc is someone who i think actively goes for distancing and bussing even when it’s not really necessary. i think he enjoys tricking people like that. and that has to be taken into account when reading his interactions

I'll say it again, LC is so tricky and I do think he enjoys it. I haven't gone through his iso though so let me do that. I think I said earlier without looking back it feels like he was nipping at Epi's heels the whole way but I need to confirm that. I have famously gotten tricked by LC before so I am perhaps unnaturally wary of him. (Sometimes I've read him correctly though but those losses to him went down hard.)

lolol

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:45 pm i think we should chop radishes next

then if he’s town people will have to decide who to chop between me and tutuu in F3 and i suspect it will be me

but hopefully radishes just isn’t town lol

I will look hard at radishes tomorrow.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:32 pm lc probably spewed town too

yeah I need to read back through him but what I remember is he was nipping at Epi's heels all along.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:23 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:22 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:19 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:15 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:05 pm it’s not lc right? i feel like lc is not really being like scum!lc but at the same time i feel like he hasn’t really been moving the game forward or like ~doing things~. i feel like a lot of his posts don’t go anywhere. but i also don’t know if that’s actually scummy for lc
I don't think it's lc because I'm sure it's Epi and their interactions don't appear teammatey to me. But lc is a good slippery player so I'm not 100% about him.
are you claiming a result on epi?
Yes I am.
what specifically? track? cop? and what were your othee results?

I am a 1-shot cop and that was my one shot.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:19 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:15 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:05 pm it’s not lc right? i feel like lc is not really being like scum!lc but at the same time i feel like he hasn’t really been moving the game forward or like ~doing things~. i feel like a lot of his posts don’t go anywhere. but i also don’t know if that’s actually scummy for lc
I don't think it's lc because I'm sure it's Epi and their interactions don't appear teammatey to me. But lc is a good slippery player so I'm not 100% about him.
are you claiming a result on epi?

Yes I am.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:05 pm it’s not lc right? i feel like lc is not really being like scum!lc but at the same time i feel like he hasn’t really been moving the game forward or like ~doing things~. i feel like a lot of his posts don’t go anywhere. but i also don’t know if that’s actually scummy for lc

I don't think it's lc because I'm sure it's Epi and their interactions don't appear teammatey to me. But lc is a good slippery player so I'm not 100% about him.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:51 pm [VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

Me too -
[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:03 pm i think we have to chop radishes today

i don’t know what else to do

Maybe. I have an idea too but I'm in the middle of a game right now.

I'm going to re-read Epi and I'll also go through Marmot's posts. Why would Marmot bring up the "cut of your jib" thing though if he was Made's partner? I keep getting stuck on that thought.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:49 pm no matter how i cut it i think if we kill in

epi
marmot
lc
radishes

i think we probably win

I agree with this.

To be clear, I'm not at the point where I think Hally is mafia.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:48 pm Wild tinfoil: What if Dizzy's tinfoil about Hally is right, and it is Hally and Epi, and that's why Hally has been trying to get me off Epi's case, and Hally doesn't want Epi in the shot pool because they're wolves together (and Hally also removes me from the proposed shot pool just because it would look hella suspicious to just try to exclude Epi)?

For the record, I'd prefer Epi be in the TSP shot pool, and if I need to jump in there as well to make people okay with the pool, I am okay with that and won't fight it.

Seanzie this is why I like you. I don't know that I agree with you about this (I'll think about it) but I love that you put forth ideas like this to try to solve the game.

RIP Martin and ugh.

@TonyStarkPrime do you just have your vote on "no elimination" because you are trying to decide or do you intend to keep it there?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:59 pm Has anyone even done an iso of seanzie yet? I'm keeping up albeit not retaining everything, but I don't remember anyone seriously actually trying to sort seanzie one way or the other. A few little things, sure, but I feel like he's not gotten close attention.

I have no reason to think he's scum, but he's definitely in that mid-range of presence level where good wolves try to hide themselves. Dunno. It's probably worth a look later.

I've just read through seanzie's posts and though I don't agree with him on everything I didn't find anything that really makes him a top suspect in my book. His reasoning for the most part looked good. I did not agree with him on his early tutuu read but he seems to have abandoned his belief that she is mafia. I liked his reasoning after the Day 1 elimination about Guillo being town but like him, I have reversed my opinion on that. I understand his Epi read because Epi does not do a lot of things that help people find him as town - and I'm not sure about Epi myself at this point. Actually I admire Sean's pushing of Epi, not even LC is doing as much pushing as Sean and this is Sean's first game with him.

The only reluctance I have at this point is just a little nag that LC and Sean could be working together as teammates to get rid of a good player, Epi. LC is tricky tricky and Sean is unknown to me. It's just a little nag though, not a big one at this point, it's just something I need to flesh out more.

Sorry I have not been around this morning, had some discord business to take care of. I am reviewing Sean right now and then I'm going to go back to Epi and read him again.

I am awake but haven't started looking at individual people yet. I echo the thoughts about Martin, I feel bad for him because my vote there is based on Guillo's behavior and there is nothing he can do about that. I'm still happy with my vote there at this point.

My worst fear is that LC or even Epi could be bad. I've played with them both for years and I know how tricky they are to read. I didn't see Epi say how he felt about LC - did anyone else see that? I'm not wild about Epi's vote as I look at it this morning, it feels OMGUS. I will take a look at Sean today but like I said yesterday as he has posted I've felt good about him.

I'll be in and out today a good bit and should be here at EOD. Don't forget all, EOD is before 6, it's like 5:47 pm est.

also

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine

And hi Epi, I am on my way out but it's nothing personal. I'm here way later than usual and I'm pooped. And lol about Abigail!

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:50 pm do we all agree at least that if tony can shoot again he is always town?

yes. And thank you @tutuu for the balance perspective.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:44 pm we should eliminate martin today imo. i agree with tutuu

tony is town off the claim. he just is. i know we all wanted him to be scum but let’s be real here

radishes is meh but has things re: made going for him

everyone else is more villagery than those people

so martin is the correct kill. let’s make it happen please

Ok I'm convinced on Martin.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:24 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:41 pm New idea: vig is not town.

Why?

TSP shot somebody who was in sort of in the poe, but not clearly in the poe. Also, since we've brought up the point that pr's do not belong to a specific alignment, the vig is not inherently town. Shooting Nanook as a scum-aligned vig sort of makes sense if the player who did it planned on claiming it.

I'm not thrilled about this idea, but it should be acknowleged.
theoretically what you say makes sense in terms of the nature of the shot. but practically speaking i would be very surprised if jay included a scum vig in a 13er he ran. it just isn’t balanced

What if it was a 1 shot mafia vig? Would that still be unbalanced? (I am not very knowledgeable about balance issues)

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:50 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:48 pm
So which way to go tomorrow, I need to mentally sift for a bit before deciding.

Does this involve literally running your brain through a sift?

I mentally imagine the process as a sieve where the solids stay in it and the liquid goes through.

Regarding TSP, I regard him as town because of the whole way his claim went. Someone asked him if he had done it and it flowed from there. You made a point that we might have a mafia vig and I haven't made up my mind how I feel about that. Seems over powered is my first gut reaction but I'll think about it.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:35 pm i don’t really know what to do

martin’s posts are strange but i question whether they’re truly wolfy. radishes exists and still feels lackluster but it’s not like i can’t see him as town here. tony is very likely just town for his role and i’m just annoyed at the shot, but it doesn’t make him a wolf

and then beyond this i don’t really know. my sense is we will find the remaining wolves in martin/lc/epi/marmot/radishes but none of them are really particularly wolfy to me. jules/sean/tutuu/tony are very likely to all be town here imo

I am feeling the same way.

I read through Epi about an hour ago and just couldn't grab onto LC and Marmot's points of view. I get that the Made vote didn't have any explanation but that's not enough for me to say "mafia" given his other contributions. LC said his analyses of people was basically quotes and gibberish but I can't fault Epi for not having a sound conclusion on everyone on Night 1. The whole process just made me tired.

Then, just now I read through Radish and he seems to be picking up the pace a bit, contributing more meat.

Guillo seemed somewhat wolfy to me but Martin feels genuine, at least so far.

Tony I have to believe is town though I too am annoyed at the shot.

I have not read through Sean and will do so tomorrow but as he has posted I have felt good about what he has to say.

So which way to go tomorrow, I need to mentally sift for a bit before deciding.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:26 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:23 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:19 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:12 pm I subbed in in the middle of day 1.
Yeah but that's almost 24 hours of time, and you made 29 posts in that length.

Epi made around 30 posts at that length as well.
Ok, but lol, I did not play this game for 24 hours Day 1. Why do you think I would have concentrated on Epi during the time I had?
I wasn't seriously thinking you and epi were scum together.

I was simply making a point that I think I would of been convinced of that before they convince me that Epi and Made have high scummate compatibility.

Oh I see what you're saying. I just misunderstood.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:19 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:12 pm I subbed in in the middle of day 1.
Yeah but that's almost 24 hours of time, and you made 29 posts in that length.

Epi made around 30 posts at that length as well.

Ok, but lol, I did not play this game for 24 hours Day 1. Why do you think I would have concentrated on Epi during the time I had?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:07 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:50 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:23 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:17 pm How do you feel about Epi?
Well, I've said my piece about him.

Could be wrong as I have far from lock town'ed him but I would somewhat doubt it.

Him being scum feels weird. I get the feeling if he were scum then he would be doing something different and more proactive rather than all those side comments he keeps making.

As well as my past belief that I think the way he went about voting Made and reacted to Made's flip, including his future comments about there being at EoD without any comment, are just unlikely to have been made by a made wolf partner.

What do you think about his handling of Made aside from the vote?

I talked a little bit about my opinion on that here. I think it's teammate compatible.

That said, MR is probably getting my vote today.
Honestly you would have an easier time convincing me that Epi is teamed with Grogu/Juliets for lack of D1 interaction.

I subbed in in the middle of day 1.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:11 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:10 pm I'm not going to spend more time on it tbh.
As in, I would rather spend my time looking into other things right now.

I just figured I would offer my thoughts if they're anything.

Yes, of course. I appreciate your thoughts. I think I'm off to look at Epi.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:28 pm In response to the Juliets wall on Gulio here

In top-down order for each spoiler/note.

1. They were quite confused by the D0 obviously, and probably felt out of place. That creates anxiety for people regardless of alignment IMO, and depends more on their personality as to how they handle that. Additionally, Jay said this at the start of day 0:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:23 pm It is Day 0. Day 1 will begin at 6:00 PM EDT tomorrow the 9th of January. You may treat this day as an ordinary game day, but there will be no voting until Day 1 begins. The primary purpose of Day 0 is to allow players to become aware the game has started and to check in. The thread is open.
If Gulio relied on this even partially, then they would have little reason to expect that D0, as per what Nanook implies in that quote, is or can be heavily involved in people's reads.

2. Okay.

3. Now, I'm not Gulio, but I do believe I can sympathize with it to a degree for a few reasons. Firstly, in my first town game here on TS with Tutuu I did at some point heavily scum-read her for (if I recall) bad reasons. Secondly, as Tutuu herself has noted multiple times this game, she is or was a frequent miselimination. People, in general, seem to have a hard time with Tutuu without having played with them before.

4. Last time they talked about Tutuu for the time of this quote was ~32 hours ago. And considering this game had ~1200 posts by the end of day 1, it isn't too inconceivable that they change their mind a little bit until later as a lot of posts had likely happened since then. Additionally, with their past post that you quoted, they work on a "guilty until proven innocent" mindset; in a sense one person is still guilty but is just less suspicious than other "guilty" persons. Though that may be stretching it a bit.

5. Okay. I could chop this up to "just having self-consciousness as part of being in a new community" buuut considering wolves are self-conscious as well, at least in the ideal world, that probably isn't going to fly (by you guys)....

6. No idea. I can't think of anything other than bringing up a "hey guys you're trying to yeet a new player in your community on day 1" card. But I doubt they were thinking that. Maybe they were just over-confident in themselves; I'm not Gulio and I don't really know them.

And the next two spoilers are pro-town-gulio, thus having no comment from me.

Martin, thanks for your response.

Regarding tutuu, my confusion lies in the fact that he had said several things about her being not town, the last being roughly 5 and 1/2 hours before he voted TSP. Meanwhile, he had said nothing about TSP and then further refused to say anything about him. I can understand if he thought TSP was more suspicious than tutuu but there is no evidence for his suspicion like there is for his suspicion of tutuu. And then he confounds it by telling Seanzie he will explain it and then he retracts that. This is really the crux of my suspicion. If he thought tutuu was suspicious but TSP was more suspicious why did he refuse to supply reasoning?

I don't know, I have never played with Guillo before so maybe this is just a play style issue that I am having trouble with because I am used to players providing reasons even if the reasons are "he's in my POE and I see nothing about him that tells me he's town".

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