The Syndicate

Bump.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Matahari wrote:I really think MP needs a cover vote, and Vomps as well.

I told you, covering me would be a waste. But I agree on Vomps. I think one of you and S~V~S should go for Kate and the other Vomps, honestly.

And I can't believe people are saying I'm baddie because I put a vote on llama. I entirely see a scenario in which one of these two/three players (Russ and Llama out of the ones who have votes; Russ, Llama, and Vomps in general) where one could be totally innocent, and I do think we are seeing a recently recruited Kate with a baddie Llama at this point, especially now that he's come back.

I am totally innocent and it's certain that Russ is not.

thellama73 wrote:

Matahari wrote:I really think MP needs a cover vote, and Vomps as well.

That will not happen, since there are only two of you left, and whichever is bad will vote me.

This.

MovingPictures07 wrote:It would be a complete waste to cover me; there is still at the least one more recruit up there who hasn't been covered.

Yes there is, it's you.

Matahari wrote:ok, if i had to put a cover vote between vomps and kate, and svs had to put a cover between you and rox,
I DONT KNOW. WHY AM I YELLING?

I thought we agreed that Roxy is Bob, not a recruit?

Someone please cover MP.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:If you really had thought that both llama and Russ are likely recruits you would either have voted for Russ or used your vote to cover someone. It really seems quite obvious now that llama is not a recruit and you know it.

So are you specifically ignoring the fact that there is still a part of me rolling around in my mind that one of you is unrecruited? Yes, according to the evidence, they are likely recruits; I can't fathom anyone would deny that at this point.

Seriously, Vomps, if you really are unrecruited civvie here, you should be able to recognize how it's near mathematically impossible for llama and Russ to both NOT be recruits, correct, if you are being genuine and not malicious? How about we use Mata and S~V~S's votes to cover two other people and let Ben decide. What do you think of that idea?

I'd actually be fine with that.

If you really had thought that both llama and Russ are likely recruits you would either have voted for Russ or used your vote to cover someone. It really seems quite obvious now that llama is not a recruit and you know it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Kate wrote:

Vompatti wrote:It seems very likely to me now that MP is a recruit and Roxy is Bob.

Can't wait to see what svs and mata do because both are too smart to not see it now.

I'm sorry, but do you even understand what you're saying here?

I can't wait either. I'm still fine with Russ having the most votes, and I did in fact think that llama would only have 2 when I submitted my vote, because before I submitted it, I could have SWORN it said 1. Then I submitted and it went up to 3. Which is all well and good because it should be evident both are very likely recruits. It just leaves the last two voters to cover some people, that's all.

The fact that Vomps is joining you in this ridiculous charade of trying to make me seem malicious because of this only confirms my suspicion that you have now been recruited.

If you're fine with Russ having the most votes, why on earth should llama have two instead of one???

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Kate wrote:Well mata or svs. I hope you will read the passion in my posts. Svs. You know this is civvie Kate. So whichever of you is the civ. vote Russ to give us a chance otherwise good game baddies.

Can you actually explain why Russ is preferable over llama? Your assertion flies in the face with logic that says it's incredibly likely that both are recruits.

I'm fine with a lynch of either, but the fact that you and others seem to be pushing really hard for Russ over llama strikes me odd, so I'm trying to understand. I know you tried to clarify it earlier, but I can't fathom what made you re-evaluate, other than being recruited, and realizing that one of these people perhaps is a victim --- as I theorized could be possible in the part of my post you never addressed.

You don't find it odd how hard Roxy was/is pushing for llama?

It seems very likely to me now that MP is a recruit and Roxy is Bob.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Mata and S~V~S, does one of you at the least want to cover Kate or Vomps? What are we thinking here?

I didn't realize Rox had voted when I submitted my vote; it must have been literally right as I was voting or I was nuts and just didn't see it there.

Orly?

I think any civ should be fine with lynching russ, leaving llama with one vote and covering one or two of the others, right?

I would have been stunned if Russ had voted for someone other than me or llama.

Oh right, nevermind, disregard my last post.

It seems there's no way we can both cover every recruit and make sure they won't manipulate the lynch. Anyway, whoever is good (I'm assuming Kate and SVS), I hope you won't waste any votes on me or llama. Furthermore, if you're going to cover either Mata or Roxy, I strongly suggest you cover Roxy.

thellama73 wrote:

Matahari wrote:well, Vomps has proved that he is bad, thats established. And it proves that Llama is bad, because vomps is trying to protect him. which is making me believe that somehow, some way, Llama is Bob.

I can't wait for Alex to get back and see the cascades of illogic coming from you and Roxy. You two are definitely bad.

Seconded.

Roxy wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Why do vomps and russ both need a vote when only one of them can be a recruit (unless the other was recruited on Day 4, which would have been silly of BOB given much attention they are getting)?

Looks like for sure Vomps is a recruit

I don't understand this mathematics.

I'm not a recruit so I don't need a vote. It seems Mata might need one though.

*votes Russ*

Matahari wrote:

Vompatti wrote:If it's certain that Russ is a recruit I'm not going to vote for anyone but him.

its equally as certain that Llama is a recruit. Are you against forming a voting plan with the rest of us?

How is it equally as certain?

If it's certain that Russ is a recruit I'm not going to vote for anyone but him.

thellama73 wrote:

Matahari wrote:There is already 1 vote on Russti, if we put 1 on MP, 1 on Vomps, and all the rest on Llama, I would feel best about it. I'm putting this out there now, because if anyone was to be against it, I want to understand why, or what the objections would be-

I object to it!

What about my argument that if you have to choose between me and Russ, Russ makes more sense because there is a smaller pool of possibilities in his group and hence less margin for error? From the last NK we know that either Russ or Vomps has to be a recruit and either me, MP, Kate, SVS or Mata has to be a recruit. Why take a one in five shot when you can take a one in two shot?

So since I'm not a recruit, Russ has to be one? Is this for sure? I'm torn between you and Russ, so if there's proof that Russ is definitely a recruit I'm obivously going with Russ.

Would you believe me if I told you I'm not Bob?

An experienced burglar opens the bottom drawer first because that saves them from having to close any drawer.

Roxy wrote:thanks for answering part of my post Vomps

If I were to answer the part I didn't answer my answer would be very vague.

@Roxy: There were and there still are several people I'd trust rather than llama (namely Kate, SVS and Russ). That doesn't mean that I ever suspected llama "heavily", it just means that I did suspect him. I suspected him more around the Nevi lynch than I do now, because at that time it seemed so obvious to me that Nevi was a civ that I thought llama was bad and wanted Nevi out, but this time we were both wrong about BWT so maybe he was wrong about Nevi too.

Roxy wrote:Vomps earlier you were all over llama insisting he was bad now you are voting with him for a civvie. Why have you suddenly changed your mind where llama is concerned - enough to follow his vote? Interesting for sure!

I think what I said was that I'd rather suspect llama than [I don't remember who, I think it was Nevi]. I still don't completely trust him, I just thought we were right about BWT and I didn't want to split the votes further. I'm not going to follow his vote on the next lynch if he's going for Kate or someone else I trust more than him.

Kate wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Kate wrote:

Lets not forget this...

Welcome to Twin Peaks. It is Day 0. It is your job to find out who killed Laura Palmer. Some people are not who they say they are. Other people do not know who they are yet. All that is certain is that only one can win...

Bob killed Laura Palmer . . . but what if Bob doesn't know he's Bob?

Or the possessed dont know they are possessed?

Kate wrote:

Lets not forget this...

Welcome to Twin Peaks. It is Day 0. It is your job to find out who killed Laura Palmer. Some people are not who they say they are. Other people do not know who they are yet. All that is certain is that only one can win...

Bob killed Laura Palmer . . . but what if Bob doesn't know he's Bob?

I don't know about Kate, but those last two votes for llama do look really bad.

I thought the poll would end tomorrow as it's midnight here and I always confuse 12 AM and 12 PM, but I'm assuming this doesn't apply to anyone else.

*voted BWT*

I have to say I'm going out on a limb here, but if I had to toss a coin I would.

thellama73 wrote:I would propose that MP, Vomps and I vote BWT. That will give him four and we won't be able to be overruled by the baddies. Then, if someone else wants to cover Mata or Kate, I would be happy.

As I don't trust BWT and I don't think we should split the votes much further I'm fine with this.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:I'm a little surprised no one shares my thoughts on BWT, but that being what it is I'm happy to talk about myself as well. Defending oneself in mafia seems to present pretty few possibilities, but if anyone has any concerns, thread-based or otherwise, that they'd like me to address I'll be more than happy to do so, especially if it helps us avoid a fourth civ lynch in a row.

I have no answer to S~V~S's vague, "he's not around enough". Vomps has objectively been around less than me, and in my opinion contributed less of value, but if she'd rather vote for me that's her perogative. I stand by what I said before: I live in Europe, wake up for work every weekday at 5am, and because of that am usually in bed by 10 or 11pm. Thus I miss most of your evenings, which is when most of the posting is done. I'm sorry if I miss big discussions, but that will be the case until June when I move back to the States, and I do always take care to comment on what's been said afterward.

Congratulations, Russ. This post screams "sincerity" to me. I am going to trust my initial gut and vote for Vompatti over you (I will wait until closer to closing time to actually cast the vote, just in case)

And I'm leaning towards voting for BWT over Russ.

It screams sincerity to me too, and I agree S~V~S's argument against Russ popping "in and out" makes no sense, but I do think Russ could be a candidate for Bob or a recruit nonetheless.

Why are you leaning BWT, Vomps, can you elaborate?

I think Russ has some good points here:

Russtifinko wrote:I think BWT is a MUCH better candidate than either me or Vomps, and here's why.

He voted for 2 people who either were civs (Nev) or almost certainly were (Mata) at the time he voted them.

Here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=136&p=17222#p17222 he excuses his vote for BF by saying he hasn't had time to get into the game. Says he hasn't had time for the game and will reread some people (which he never does).

Here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=136&start=560 he says he may eye Kate today, and then writes a paragraph about why she shouldn't be looked at. He then says he doesn't know who to look at today. He suggests low posters, which is both a bit ironic and a bit pingy, in my opinion. He says he finally has time for the game and will be around all day, after which he writes one post defending Kate and isn't heard from the rest of the day. In his most recent post on Thursday he says he forgot to check in and get caught up, which he apparently hadn't done before.

The above is enough to convince me to vote for BWT instead of Russ, along with my feeling that the suspicion of Russ throughout the game has been exaggerated whereas BWT seems to have been blindly trusted.

This, however, seems far-fetched:

Russtifinko wrote:Combine the thread info with the fact that BWT won Minecraft as a baddie largely by not being present, and I think we're seeing a bad BWT. Kate and S~V~S's defenses of him worry me a lot. Kate and S~V~S are best friends irl and Kate won Minecraft with BWT, so they both seem like logical recruits for her. Furthermore, S~V~S was the first to defend Kate after the Nev debacle, saying she would never lead a lynch like that as a baddie. I'm starting to think Kate did just that.

If my theory is right, then what happened last night lines up perfectly. One uncovered recruit (BWT) killed, one was covered (S~V~S), and Kate is more or less clear of suspicion.

I'd be more inclined to believe that Kate and SVS are good and BWT is Bob (as I think he's been away too much to be a particularly useful recruit). I don't remember the defenses Russ is referring to and I'm not going to look them up (maybe someone else will?), but there's probably a logical explanation for them that doesn't make Kate and SVS bad.

thellama73 wrote:Alright, now I think it's time to start considering who the recruit might be among myself, SVS, Kate, Mata and MP.

I know it is not me. I don't think it's Kate, and based on the relationship between Kate and SVS, I don't think it's SVS. Mata seems very off to me, but I don't know her playstyle, so maybe she is always like this. I would believe any number of horrible things about MP.

Thoughts?

I don't think it's Mata. I suppose there's a slightly chance it could be Kate or SVS, but it seems much more likely to me that it's MP -- unless of course MP is Bob.

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:I'm a little surprised no one shares my thoughts on BWT, but that being what it is I'm happy to talk about myself as well. Defending oneself in mafia seems to present pretty few possibilities, but if anyone has any concerns, thread-based or otherwise, that they'd like me to address I'll be more than happy to do so, especially if it helps us avoid a fourth civ lynch in a row.

I have no answer to S~V~S's vague, "he's not around enough". Vomps has objectively been around less than me, and in my opinion contributed less of value, but if she'd rather vote for me that's her perogative. I stand by what I said before: I live in Europe, wake up for work every weekday at 5am, and because of that am usually in bed by 10 or 11pm. Thus I miss most of your evenings, which is when most of the posting is done. I'm sorry if I miss big discussions, but that will be the case until June when I move back to the States, and I do always take care to comment on what's been said afterward.

Congratulations, Russ. This post screams "sincerity" to me. I am going to trust my initial gut and vote for Vompatti over you (I will wait until closer to closing time to actually cast the vote, just in case)

And I'm leaning towards voting for BWT over Russ.

Snow Dog wrote:I am still strongly feeling Vompatti and BWT as recruited or one of them Bob. Anyone care to comment on this?

If I were Bob (and I'm not) I wouldn't recruit me.

Kate wrote:What confuses me more is the assumption that there are 3 baddies. Why would day 0 count as an even day?

Zero is an even number. In other words, its parity—the quality of an integer being even or odd—is even. Zero fits the definition of "even number": it is an integer multiple of 2, namely 0 × 2. As a result, zero shares all the properties that characterize even numbers: 0 is divisible by 2, 0 is surrounded on both sides by odd numbers, 0 is the sum of an integer (0) with itself, and a set of 0 objects can be split into two equal sets.

Since definitions can change, another approach is to set them aside and consider how zero fits into the patterns formed by other even numbers. The parity rules of arithmetic, such as even − even = even, require 0 to be even. Zero is the additive identity element of the group of even integers, and it is the starting case from which other even natural numbers are recursively generated. Applications of this recursion from graph theory to computational geometry rely on zero being even. Not only is 0 divisible by 2, it is divisible by every integer. In the binary numeral system used by computers, it is especially relevant that 0 is divisible by every power of 2; in this sense, 0 is the "most even" number of all.

thellama73 wrote:The only role I see that could have stopped a lynch at this point is Josie. So either Mata is Josie, or someone who is on the same team as Mata and knows it is Josie. Of course, any of these people could be recruits, so this tells us nothing.

There are quite a few roles with *secrets* though. Maybe one of them could have stopped the lynch or altered the results somehow?

I used my ability not too long ago, if you know what I mean.

Oh nevermind, my clock was wrong again.

Shouldn't the poll have ended already?

Russtifinko wrote:And this is unrelated to the current lynch, but how is it that Vomps can just drop votes however he pleases? I realize "it's his style" and "he's always quiet", but every other player is held to the standard of being able to write some kind of reason for every vote, and usually the reason has to be logical and supported by thread evidence. I hope you don't take this personally, vomps, I guess it's just beginning to annoy me that you avoid all that work the rest of us do building cases.

I said (or at least implied) earlier that everyone seems to trust the llama but me, which is why I think it would be beneficial for Bob to recruit him, which is the reason I voted for him (along with wanting to make sure I vote for someone we were going to have covered anyway so that we wouldn't end up covering too many).

thellama73 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I'll be sleeping tomorrow so I have to vote now and I'm going with llama.

*votes llama*

Any particular reason?

Since I voted early, I voted for someone whom most people seemed to want to cover so that I wouldn't mess up the strategy or anything. On the other hand I still think there's a good chance you're possessed, so if someone chooses to give you another vote (which I doubt) I'm fine with that.

I'll be sleeping tomorrow so I have to vote now and I'm going with llama.

*votes llama*

Snow Dog wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I'm always quiet and I'm always being suspected for being quiet. I prefer to sit and listen unless I have something significant to contribute.

Incidentally I think we should trust Kate and be doubtful of thellama instead.

Oh so pingy. The Llama and I are confirmed civvies. What have you got as evidence? Even if he was posessed last night you still have nothing to go on.

There is no evidence, but neither are there any "confirmed civvies". Anyone could be possessed, so everyone should be under suspicion (at least to some extent). However if I were to pick someone to trust, based on gut feeling, it wouldn't be the llama.

I'm always quiet and I'm always being suspected for being quiet. I prefer to sit and listen unless I have something significant to contribute.

Incidentally I think we should trust Kate and be doubtful of thellama instead.

Voted for Ben Horne.

Is it just me or has MP not been posting as much as usual? Somehow I trust him less than [insert a relatively long list of names (including both SVS(!) and Nevinera) here]. I won't be here tomorrow so I'm voting now, and since no one else seems to suspect him and we still need to spread out the votes a bit, I'm tossing in one for MP.

*votes MP*