The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:

reywaS wrote:It fits because after the 3rd successful lynch he has more or less run out of other baddies to go after. Haven't you noticed that since that last lynch his post count and content has fallen off almost completely? You call him hyper aggressive here, but I don't see it.

Damn, you got me. Being on the opposite Goblin team and thus knowing who all is on the other goblin team made it really super easy for me in the beginning, but now that I've helped decimate that team, I don't know what to do anymore.

DFaraday wrote:

Dom wrote: Do you think it's peculiar that everyone he has gone after has been on the same team?

Actually, it makes sense to me. We got one baddie right off the bat, and Epi saw connections MP made to teammates, and it just got on a roll from there. It's not like Epi was randomly going after completely unrelated people and they all just happened to be on the same team.

I feel like Boogs has an obsession with Snow Dog.

Dom wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Dom wrote: Do you think it's peculiar that everyone he has gone after has been on the same team?

It's unusual, but I think the idea that he would relentlessly hound his entire team just for civ cred strains belief. The other option, of course, is that he is on the other team and just really good at finding other baddies, but my memory (and I may be mistaken) is that he is not as aggressive in baddie hunting when he is mafia, even in a two-mafia game. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Everyone seems to think Boogs is suspicious. I'm not seeing it, personally, but I was wrong last time, so I'm willing to let others take the lead on the next lynch. I want to look more closely at CBK and Vompatti, personally, as I'm getting a bad vibe from both of them.

I meant that it does seem a bit odd that he has only REALLY gone after people on one team. I would think, if he is bad, he is not on their team.
Does anyone remember an Epig, who was bad, who was also hyper aggressive?

reywaS wrote:

Dom wrote:

fingersplints wrote:RIP Mongoose

Dom, while you are around can you tell me what your thoughts currently on llama are?
He was suspicious of you earlier but backed off that and now seems to be buddying up to you. I'm still leaning wrong civvie but I'm just curious how you see him

I am pretty sure Llama is a civvie, but not because he led the lynch on Mongoose and that would be too "risky" for a baddie (that's exactly why a baddie would do that). I think he's civvie because he's been very proactive in hunting baddies, very consistent in his suspicions, and does not leave doors open for himself to get out of voting for someone, i.e. a teammate.

thellama73 wrote:

Dom wrote: Llama, what do you think of Epig this game?

I think he is probably okay. He went after MP hard and Rob's hyper-aggressive baddie hunting is usually a sign of his civvienes.

Do you think it's peculiar that everyone he has gone after has been on the same team?

fingersplints wrote:

fingersplints wrote:RIP Mongoose

Dom, while you are around can you tell me what your thoughts currently on llama are?
He was suspicious of you earlier but backed off that and now seems to be buddying up to you. I'm still leaning wrong civvie but I'm just curious how you see him

also never mind to this I found my answer

reywaS wrote:To add a little more...Seems like Epig is doing a lot of bobbing and weaving. Giving some ideas on why someone is bad and then trying to separate himself from it. He did it with me. He also did it with Mongoose. Right after Mongoose survived the first lynch, there Epig was saying how bad it made her look. Then he pretty much disappears from the conversation after the lynch wagon starts picking up steam. He didn't vote at all in the last lynch.

What would you call the Elo and MP lynches, then?

lynches against the other team.

But how does this fit with your bob and weave "theory"... thing.

Dom wrote:

fingersplints wrote:RIP Mongoose

Dom, while you are around can you tell me what your thoughts currently on llama are?
He was suspicious of you earlier but backed off that and now seems to be buddying up to you. I'm still leaning wrong civvie but I'm just curious how you see him

I am pretty sure Llama is a civvie, but not because he led the lynch on Mongoose and that would be too "risky" for a baddie (that's exactly why a baddie would do that). I think he's civvie because he's been very proactive in hunting baddies, very consistent in his suspicions, and does not leave doors open for himself to get out of voting for someone, i.e. a teammate.

thellama73 wrote:

Dom wrote: Llama, what do you think of Epig this game?

I think he is probably okay. He went after MP hard and Rob's hyper-aggressive baddie hunting is usually a sign of his civvienes.

Do you think it's peculiar that everyone he has gone after has been on the same team?

fingersplints wrote:

fingersplints wrote:RIP Mongoose

Dom, while you are around can you tell me what your thoughts currently on llama are?
He was suspicious of you earlier but backed off that and now seems to be buddying up to you. I'm still leaning wrong civvie but I'm just curious how you see him

also never mind to this I found my answer

reywaS wrote:To add a little more...Seems like Epig is doing a lot of bobbing and weaving. Giving some ideas on why someone is bad and then trying to separate himself from it. He did it with me. He also did it with Mongoose. Right after Mongoose survived the first lynch, there Epig was saying how bad it made her look. Then he pretty much disappears from the conversation after the lynch wagon starts picking up steam. He didn't vote at all in the last lynch.

What would you call the Elo and MP lynches, then?

kneel4justice wrote:

reywaS wrote: define a lot.

I'm not sure, I am just trying to grasp if you have experience.
From what I can have seen, I was under the impression you suspect him because he's suspected you without really giving an explanation and instead of voting for you he changed to vote Mongoose, stuff like that?
And to me, those things look bad but when I pair them up with Epi, they don't. It just seems like his personality or ego talking. Lol
So I was wondering, is this different than what you've seen from him before? Or have you not had many opportunities to see him before?

Epignosis wrote:

reywaS wrote:define "Actually, define "played." "

define, "pretending to be suspicious of someone."

That definition will start with "rey"

kneel4justice wrote:

reywaS wrote:

Dom wrote:It's so great to post again. I knew I wasn't dead the whole time, but was told to not post. It was very hard to keep my silence! I am very surprised by the outcome of the Mongoose lynch. TBH, I'd have likely voted for her. However, something strange has happened, because I do not see why she would have been so ambiguous about her survival.

reywaS wrote:
llama and epignosis are great places to begin discussion for the next lynch.

Which do you suspect more?

thellama73 wrote:Why would I vehemently lead a campaign against a civ if I were bad? It would be a kamikaze mission.

I don't think you're bad at the moment, but I think this is a particularly shitty reason that you aren't bad.

Epignosis

Have you played with Epi a lot?

Dom wrote:It's so great to post again. I knew I wasn't dead the whole time, but was told to not post. It was very hard to keep my silence! I am very surprised by the outcome of the Mongoose lynch. TBH, I'd have likely voted for her. However, something strange has happened, because I do not see why she would have been so ambiguous about her survival.

reywaS wrote:
llama and epignosis are great places to begin discussion for the next lynch.

Which do you suspect more?

thellama73 wrote:Why would I vehemently lead a campaign against a civ if I were bad? It would be a kamikaze mission.

I don't think you're bad at the moment, but I think this is a particularly shitty reason that you aren't bad.

Captain Bunny Killer wrote:

And making vague statements about something going on is not going to pass for hunting baddies, Boogs.

And I think I might be ready to bring up a llama suspicion again. Time to look back, but lets start with this exchange.

thellama73 wrote:

Captain Bunny Killer wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Captain Bunny Killer wrote: If Mongoose had teemmates who knew she would survive a lynch (and knew that surviving a lynch would look suspicious, given our roles), wouldn't they just vote for her to look good?

This is the point I was making as well.

Ok, that post you quoted got me thinking, and I looked back over the Mongoose theories. Help me out here. I totally get that a lynch survival looks really suspicious, but I'm not sold on the teammates thing. The prevailing theory seems to be that the teammates could have provided the lynch stop (unless it was Mongoose herself). But why would they stop a lynch and all vote for her? Surely they would know we'd all be super suspicious, so it would have to be knowingly sacrificing a teammate, and even helping it along. I just can't see them going from "no one is listening to llama" to "ok let's throw her to the wolves and give ourselves credit"... or just make everyone way more edgy. If they saw that the votes were suddenly coming in for her (and why were they?), why wouldn't they just do the standard throwing under the bus and just seal her fate and their supposed civviness?

Don't get me wrong. I agree that there were certainly baddies in the vote, but why is it impossible that it's the classic jump in where someone not on your team is already getting the votes?

For now, this makes me lean more towards the Smaug theory, but I'm still not even sure I'm voting for her. The problem is that, though it would be great to get rid of Smaug, it's another easy bandwagon for the baddies.

linki: @Boogs: I'll say it again. Mongoose had way more votes than a whole baddie team before anyone started voting for you, and any even semi-experienced Mafia player would know that a failed dog-pile lynch would look really suspicious. It's possible that a baddie voted for you, just as it's possible that baddies voted for Mongoose, because they try to blend into existing suspicions (which is why I've suspected you). I think these points make it unlikely that a baddie team tried to vote you out. But, as I've mentioned above, I'm not sure that the baddies were thinking about Mongoose as a teammate at all.

It's a good point, CBK. I'll have to think about it.

My guess is that people were actually starting to listen to me, and at some point they saw a Mongoose lynch as inevitable and tried to save her. Then, the piling on allowed for a near unanimous vote with no clues to differentiate one voter from another.

My guess is that the timing of the votes coming in caused them to make a tactical error by using their lynch save, only later realizing that they should have just thrown her under the buss. Another possibility is thta her role has a power that they really wanted to use for one more day and thought it was worth it.

I know that it's obvious to point out that llama lead the mongoose charge, but it began to look like the teammates argument didn't make sense before the lynch went down, so that adds to it for me.

Boogs wrote:

Leamiteo wrote:

Boogs wrote:That makes no sense... Where does Bilbo have an ability to not be lynched? Utterly confused.

Perhaps the Oakenshield character protected her.

That role says protects a player nightly though... I would assume from night actions. Something weird is going on.

Possessor of the Ring, which gives him special powers. Also the dwarves' burglar, despite being a homebody. Initially doubted by the dwarves, he continually goes up in their estimation.
Gains +1 vote every 3 Day periods. May have the opportunity to burgle from Smaug.

Boogs wrote:Seems like there's a lot of gibberish and Insanifies going on lol yeesh. I will go ahead and vote Mongoose again today and based on other's behaviors and her role if she gets lynched, we should be able to deduce who her teammates are if she ends up turning up Goblins and not Smaug.

Boogs wrote:RIPIYWG DP And I really hope that Dom isn't dead and will be back!
Welcome TH again! So glad you're back! And I hope you are still good this time!

Smaug just killed 2 nights in a row, and she didn't get lynched. I looked and it doesn't include any info when Smaug kills. But, I have a strong inkling Smaug kills odd nights, which would mean someone did something to allow Smaug to kill again. I am hoping Smaug doesn't have 2 lynch saves.
I think that llama suggesting that the other Goblin team used the device thing to save Mongoose is highly likely and some teammates were trying to vote me hoping to get me out because they knew she was going to survive. Whether she is A Goblin or Smaug, she's bad news and I am going to vote her again today unless something miraculous comes to light and changes my mind.

Bullzeye wrote:

Captain Bunny Killer wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Captain Bunny Killer wrote:I am back (and not dead!), and my absence had nothing to do with wine.

That was seriously the fishiest day/lynch poll I've ever seen.

I don't know what's going on, but I have one point to make: No one has suggested the possibility that the indy team could be aligned with the full-strength baddie team. If that is the case, we may be scwewed.

With that said, allow me to dispell another bafflingly incorrect analysis of the original case against Boogs seen in the posts I've quoted below. I don't know anything about Bullzeye, but he is incorrect if he thinks my case suggested that Boogs would gain civ cred by faking a silence. If he did fake a silence, I think it would be to cover up his repeated and obvious claims for suspicion of known/lynched baddies after they were dead.

My comments were not directed at your case. I was responding directly to points made by Snow, who was saying that Boogs might have tried to gain civ cred. It's his argument I disagree with. As far as indy (neutral, really) teams go, there's no reason to believe they're aligned with anyone right now. Usually neutrals will just win with whichever team wins while they're alive, and they tend to side with the civs because it's easiest.

I'm voting to stand and fight!

Ok, sorry for the mix-up. My comments then should read according to Snow Dog instead.

To be honest though I don't think Snow is misinterpreting you either, I think he just has his own opinion. I disagree with it, but I think it's all him. He just happens to think similarly to you is all.

thellama73 wrote:Right, I just reread the roles, and there are a lot of secrets, but I see two main possibilities for Mongoose's survival.

1. She is Smaug, who is unlikely to be able to be lynched due to his armored hide.

2. She is a Goblin Tow Goblin who has the help of:
Goblin Inventor
Goblin who creates mechanical devices with devious purposes.
Creates items such as armor and weapons for his tribe.

I suspect that armor would be useful at stopping a lynch. The second option is, in my estimation, much more likely, giving the way the votes came down, which indicates teammates in my view.

I also think Mongoose knew full well that she would survive, given her halfhearted defense. This would be the case in both of my above scenarios.

Either of those are possible, but also two of the GT Goblins have secrets and the remaining Moria goblin does too. I don't think they can be ruled out. There are a lot of possibilities still.

Vompatti wrote:My theory is that Mongoose is good and Mongoose voters are bad.

I seem to remember you having a similar theory about Elo though

Dom wrote: That's fine, Vomps. That's not what I'm critiquing here. I am confused by Mongoose's ambiguity. She says, "if" she was saved. Now, saved would indicate that someone else... you know... saved her. Ergo, she does not know how she survived. (Even if it's something that intrinsic to Mongoose that she doesn't know, it would appear this way to Mongoose, no?)
However, Mongoose's ambiguity here indicates to me that she is being very careful about what she is saying. She doesn't want to say something that would implicate her as a certain role/faction. I got caught in this during Supernatural Mafia (I think). I believe LC (who was also bad) caught me because I said that I didn't know how I survived. That would have required me to be a baddie, etc.

Mongoose, why so ambiguous? Why so secretive?

I think this is a good assessment. If she knew how she survived, she could just say as much. If she doesn't, someone must have saved her. She either saved herself or someone else did, there's no 'if' about it. I remember that contributing to your downfall in Supernatural.

reywaS wrote: I faked being silenced for civvie cred once. And it ended up working out quite nicely for me. It was in Lost: Revolutions on RM. I went from being suspect number one in the game to almost confirmed civvie(as far as the civvies thought anyway). I was bad bad bad in that game.

People fake being silenced all the time to try to get suspicion of themselves. Roxy did it recently in I think Viral Vids.

Weren't there other reasons people thought you were probably a confirmed civ as well though? You and Typh massively distanced from each other all game pretty much, and when he got lynched people assumed there was no way you could've been teammates.

Boogs wrote:Wow what a crazy lynch with no one dying and very interesting to ponder on... I caught up and saw I got some random votes with Lizzy and Hedgeowl... Not sure if those are genuine votes that they found me suspicious or because they were hoping to some how save Mongoose for alterior motives. Nonetheless, I look forward to hearing from them. I'm not sure what to do about the spiders but I did notice in the story he said that we were ready this time, so it makes me feel like we are able to defeat them. It sounds dangerous though.... And I'm not sure where Mongoose went? He disappeared? Interesting story indeed.

And for the faking thing that was brought up, I would never fake being silenced to gain credibility. I just saw Tranq fake being silenced in my Pokemon game and it gained suspicion on him and I pondered why he would do something so silly when he was the main Civ character. Even Epignosis can vouch for that having co hosted with me.

thellama73 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:The only thing this vote proves is that [Mongoose] is probably not on FZ's team, but I think she is a baddie nevertheless.

thellama73 wrote: I think [Mongoose] is on the other bad team, or perhaps Smaug.

thellama73 wrote: I've been saying I think Mongoose is Goblin Town Goblins, but no one will respond to my requests to give her a read and comment on my case. Needless to say, this does not make me feel better about her.

thellama73 wrote: She might be Smaug or Indie, but I think the refusal of literally all players to look closely at her indicates that at least a few are on her team.

I don't think she can be a Moria Goblin because the timing of her vote for FZ doesn't make sense if she is.

thellama73 wrote: K4J: [Mongoose is] Almost certainly Goblin Town.

thellama73 wrote: Mongoose's votes for both FZ and Elohcin were timed wrong for her to be on their team unless she actually wanted them dead. I've pointed this out a number of times.

I honestly don't know how much clearer I could make this, or why I have to keep saying it over and over again.

Epignosis wrote:Sorry rey, but I'm interested in taking out an entire team on Days 1-4.

Epignosis wrote:

reywaS wrote:but you are suggesting that I am team mates with the group, no?

Well, I didn't suggest that- I actually said I was thinking that.

kneel4justice wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:
FZ was putting a lot of relying into the idea that I was MP's partner.
She knew I wasn't. Therefore she was not being genuine here and thinking that I was on the other scum team.
I think she chose me over Mongoose for a reason (teammates).

The problem is Mongooses' vote for FZ.
But it is possible Mongoose placed it there not thinking that FZ would end up with so many votes (Heck, I didn't think she would!)

I don't think you enlarged enough of that post.

Are you saying you think Rey is her teammate?

Yeah, that's what I think. Him or two other candidates.

I am guessing Mongoose is not one of them? Do you think she is bad?
If I am being honest, Rey really helped reenforce my suspicion of FZ so I was thinking it wasn't him. He was vocal against her when no one else other than me, really, was. I guess it could be distancing gone wrong. Not sure how I feel about the idea of them being partners.

Boogs wrote:Hmmm you think they are on the other team? Something to consider. Thanks for trying to tell us your suspicions for today. Epignosis seems to feel strongly that Elohcin is bad... But idk. If he knows his wife as well as he says, it's worth a try I suppose. I still feel something is going on with SD if not MP's teammate, then possibly on the other Goblin team. She just pings me and I can't play my finger quite on it.

Dom wrote:

reywaS wrote:I'm starting to get the feeling that some of the people that are pushing the thread conversation so far down "MP and FZ and who they did or didn't throw under the bus Avenue" might could be very interested in keeping the game talk on the one baddie team while basically completely ignoring the Goblin Town Goblins and Smaug.

I mean, that's probably what I would be doing if I was a member of the GTGs. "Hey, everyone, let's find those other 2 team mates asap! Let's just ignore the other threats! Ready, break!"

Yeah, that's what I be thinking.

I odn't disagree with you.

What're you thinking of INH?
ELo?

Spacedaisy wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Okay you guys... Daisy's got me eyeing her again after I went back and reread this post, including the conversation she had with FZ in the embedded quote (she's quoting her conversation with FZ as part of her defense). It reads like a lot of appealing

It would also be one-way distancing, as Daisy never mentions FZ (outside of talking to her in the above conversation)... until Daisy votes for her. Dun dun dun.

Spacedaisy wrote:MP was a goner when I posted my support of him, he was ahead by like three votes with eight minutes to go. Why would I do that if he were my teammate and was clearly going to flip bad when I could just as easily say I suspect him? This argument makes no sense. I get why you say it if you take MPs posts and vote alone, but if you consider the whole picture and how it unfolded, it does not hold water.

That part's interesting because FZ also had an unconventional reaction before her buddy got lynched. FZ was saying things like "MP better be a baddie", or things like:

FZ. wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote: It did not strike me as suspicious actually. It struck me as normal MP.

I wonder if this is your way of trying to look better if MP comes out a civvie

For what it's worth I'm voting Daisy

The bolded accusation makes zero sense in retrospect.

I don't understand this case at all, I'm not sure what exactly you are saying.

Boogs wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:OK, this is more than a little bit sloppy, I had to mess with the formatting in order to fit it all in one screenshot. It may be hard to read. If you have trouble, use the link the see the actual version. It's much easier to read.

http://imgur.com/ZCm2bO7

Click on the image to get a larger version.

What's also interesting to note about FZ and MP according to the chart is that their scores for each other, though they talked about each other a lot, only ended up being -5 and -2... so between the two of them it was not the truly hard distancing like Dom's score (-26) or k4j's (-23). Also odd to see the -31 for Vompatti. I hadn't picked up on them saying much about Vomps. Considering that neither of them have ANY mentions of other low-activity players, he does stand out. Were they trying to throw him under the bus?

What's also interesting is that they both seemed to talk about SD a fair bit, and said mostly negative things, but other than voting for her they kept it light - again, just going by INH's chart, I haven't yet looked to check what exactly they have said about Daisy.

I felt that way too before and after MP's lynch in particular. I think he was throwing her under the bus to distance himself. She's still on my radar for possibly getting my vote today. I also have to consider some last minute voters on the back and forth votes with FZ and K4J. I think there was some initial saving possibly from the other Goblin team for K4J possibly also. Will examine it when I get free time during work today and decide who I want to cast a vote for after that.

Wait, you guys are suggesting I am on the team MP and FZ were on? Why on earth would I tie the vote up for FZ, when I could have cast my vote for k4j and given her more of a shot of surviving the lynch? This is all based on the fact they both said negative things about me, which you are saying was distancing. It could just as easily be two people looking for what they perceive to be an easy target. And I guarantee you it is, because I am not on their team, in fact I am not bad at all. I am securely civ. this seems like a major stretch to me, especially from you TH.

thellama73 wrote:Sorry I haven't been around more today guys. I am a bit sick and work has been Busytown, USA.

Did anyone do a read of Mongoose like I asked them to? I really want others to comment on her, because I am becoming increasingly convinced I am bad.

I am not sold on Daisy. I think she gave good, logical reasons why she couldn't be on MP's team.

kneel4justice wrote:

thellama73 wrote:So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

I'm not sure what to think about Rey. I thought that his suspicion of FZ was a good thing, he was going against here when really, only I was. Unless it was distancing and he didn't think she had a chance at being lynched. I do remember come the last few minutes when I had more votes or was tied I saw him online but not posting & asked him if he was going to vote, only then did he. So I guess it is a possibility that he and FZ got carried away in distancing and he was forced to vote her.
I was hoping he was good because I liked his posts against FZ.

thellama73 wrote:

juliets wrote:

thellama73 wrote:So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

llama, I went back and looked at your posts because I could not remember what you had said about reywas in the past but I could only find the comment you made to FZ that you were inclined to agree with her that this was rewas's baddie game. Now, I don't mean to say that you had not given him thought all along but could you just expound on the other reasons you see him as potentially bad? Are you saying that the 2cnd reason particularly applies to reywas because he was the last one to vote or are there other reasons you think it particularly applies to him? I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs, I just want to make sure I understand them.

Hi juliets!

So far reywaS has mostly escaped my focus, but as you say, the one time I was directed to pay attention to him, I found him shifty.

The last vote on a bandwagon stands out to me, because it is a vote that avoids accountability. The person is going to get lynched anyway, so piling on doesn't make a difference, and if the person flips bad you can say "yay, I voted for a baddie, look how good I am!"

It's not conclusive, but that's why I am thinking reywaS may be a villain this game.

thellama73 wrote:So I have been thinking about bandwagonry. Here are the last consecutive votes on FZ.
Spacedaisy (23), Leamiteo (24), DisgruntledPorcupine (25), reywaS (26) 31%

THe reasons for this could be:
1. Members of the second goblin team trying to protect either K4J or Elohcin
2. Members of FZ's team who saw her lynch as inevitable and wanted civ cred for voting for her (this particularly applies to reywaS)
3. Civs with either info or really good instincts.

I'm inclined to believe that at least one of the four is bad, and I already had lingering suspicions about SpaceDaisy and reywaS. Daisy did a pretty good job of logicking me out of voting for her yesterday, so that leaves reywaS. He is going on my list of people to possibly vote for tomorrow along with Mongoose, Dom and MetalMarsh. (in descending order of suspicion.)

juliets wrote:

reywaS wrote:
Opportunistic meaning that you are jumping on what Epig is saying with no effort of your own and zero accountability if Elohcin flips civvie. And I'm not trying to say anything about Epignosis here. He could very well be right about Elohcin. DisgruntledPorcupine hopped onto Epig saying Elohcin was bad in Viral Vids with zero input of his own....just blindly agreed. DP was bad. Hence the

I would have been totally accountable if Eloh had flipped civ. I voted for her - can't be much more accountable than that. I don't know what you mean by no effort of my own - he had a good case, he's usually right about her. What effort were you looking for? It was the best case as far as I was concerned. And just because DP, whose a completely different player than me, did something in another game as a baddie, doesn't mean something similar I've done makes me a baddie. I don't mind that you give me the eye.

juliets wrote:

reywaS wrote:

juliets wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

juliets wrote:

I did not vote Elo because she randomized. I voted for her because Epig says she's bad and in game after game epig has shown that when he thinks she's good, she's good and when he thinks she's bad, she's bad. I have questioned him intensely on this because it always looked contrived to me (the times he said she was good), a man protecting his wife. But he ultimately convinced me that he knows her so well after 10 years of living with her that he can tell by her mannerisms and how she posts if she's good or bad. I think he was wrong once but he's been consistently right in game after game and I chose to believe him here.

This is silly. Epig has been wrong about me several times. And, he always goes after me sometime in the beginning of a game to feel me out...see my reaction.

I brought my rope Choosing to swing.

It's not silly. Epig explained the whole thing to me and I was quite a doubter at first. I figured it was more likely there were shenanigans. It was a long conversation because I was convinced that there was no normal way he could be right. He finally convinced me though, and now I'm a believer. I don't know what "several" times means - Epig why don't you clear that up. How many times have you been wrong about Elo? Are you just testing her by voting her early? If I'm wrong about him this time Elo i owe you an apology - I just don't think I am.

I also brought a rope and choose to swing.

It seems either lazy or opportunistic to follow Epig so blindly like you are. I don't think you are a lazy player. What if Epig is bad and setting her up? What if he's just doing it to feel other people out like he did in Viral Vids recently? What if he's just plain wrong?

Well, he's only been wrong once, so I'm not too worried about that. As I explained earlier, it is my opinion that if he is bad he is not setting her up. Why would he pick his wife to set up as opposed to the many other people he could pick. It just doesn't make sense to me that he would do that. In the times I've seen him do this - many times - he doesn't bring her up to feel her out. He only brings her up when he knows she was good or bad. I've just seen this same behavior from Epig too many times to not believe it. I'm not sure what you mean by opportunistic - I never have understood what people mean when they say that - but I'm certainly not lazy. Do I know with 100% certainty that he is right or he is not bad? Of course not. Everyone is making a bet that they are interpreting evidence correctly when they make their vote, including me. Also, I didn't play Viral Videos so I'm not sure what went on there.