The Syndicate

Another vanilla setup is right here:

viewtopic.php?p=1071898

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:29 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:28 pm All this game did was make me afraid to go outside.

So thank you for that.
I am so sorry I voted you Epi!

It was for the best. I do believe I would have been a true liability at endgame in this one.

All this game did was make me afraid to go outside.

So thank you for that.

Just in case I go down.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:58 pm I'm not voting Abi

Clearly not. You can't change.

I already moved.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:57 pm I can't even move my vote

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:56 pm Please don't let yourself die if you're town

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:55 pm Epi vote for Wilgy

Why? You're not the boss of me.

I voted. Who spends $500 on hair?

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:51 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:50 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:49 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:48 pm Why do you call my list a big mess of nothing that narrows nothing down, but seem to be cool with Roxy's list of ambiguity?
Because it seems personality-indicative from Roxy whereas from you it surprises me.
Roxy called you cornered.

If anything, my case against you was bait.
She called me cornered for not engaging with Michelle which seemed reasonable ifkr somebody who didn't understand why I was trying to avoid engaging with her.

I suppose I read that differently than you.

"Michelle and Wiml damn. I have to sleep on all I've digested in the last few pages. I really have you both as town now I have Epi and Michelle and their cases on Wiml.

If I go on gut I feel Wiml does come across as a bit cornered only bc they kept trying to shut down their investigation. "

It is ambiguous.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:49 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:48 pm Why do you call my list a big mess of nothing that narrows nothing down, but seem to be cool with Roxy's list of ambiguity?
Because it seems personality-indicative from Roxy whereas from you it surprises me.

Roxy called you cornered.

If anything, my case against you was bait.

Why do you call my list a big mess of nothing that narrows nothing down, but seem to be cool with Roxy's list of ambiguity?

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:43 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:38 pm I don't have the time or strength to read the rest of the pages.

Instead, you've got 22 minutes to ask me what you will before I walk the plank, and I will do my very best to answer.
Why are you town?

It's what the host told me.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:43 pm Alternatively, who is the last wolf? Your reads list doesn't narrow it down.

If I had the bloody answer to that question, we wouldn't be having this one.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:39 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:31 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:19 pm Skimmed Epi's ISO and I don't think there's any solving in his D3 that isn't directly linked to self defence.

It's just his case on me, opening the PoE via having three nulls + one scumread, some LAMIST-y posts and trying to get people to stop using the PoE strat: all of which directly benefits him in survival.

I'm not seeing any evidence of him trying to solve outside of that.
Self-defense makes a great deal of sense. The way of the world now is to make a list and mow 'em down. I was next.

We may not use the same strategies, but I don't roll over when people vote me, and, on the rare instances when I am lynched as a civilian, I am going to make people feel silly for doing so.

In the days before locked Nights, I even had a wonderful gif of a late comedian to rub it in. I'll have it saved and ready to go if I do get the boot.
Self defence can be useful, sure, but do you not care about actually solving the game and finding wolves as well? I haven't seen much of that at all this phase.

Your current reads just seems like a big pool of mehs for you, have you not put any effort thus phase into narrowing that down?

I had my doubts about you. There was at least that.

I find it kind of funny the way you talk about yourself in the context of the game, as though you're not part of it.

Actually, I have to pee, so make that 20 minutes.

I don't have the time or strength to read the rest of the pages.

Instead, you've got 22 minutes to ask me what you will before I walk the plank, and I will do my very best to answer.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:35 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:34 pm Skimmed Falcon.

Ignoring the dead, Falcon's concerns were on Epi/Kate. Falcon's questioning was on Wiml, Me, Roxy. Falcon's TRs were on Abigail and Michelle.

Abigail killing Falcon is low EV. I very much want to clear Abigail for this.
See above

I see.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:30 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:22 pm
_ExLight wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:59 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:55 pm I see unvote currently has a 50% chance of going over instead of me.

So that's reassuring.
hi! nice to meet you!
could you give me a quick rundown of your thoughts?
I'm sorry, I don't think I'm going to make it with the time I have. I haven't been home.

I presently would not lynch Wiml or Michelle. I realize that's probably not much help. I made a big ass case against WIml, but I think Wiml handled my whimsical turn as best as could be expected. Michelle reeks of genuine frustration.

I think Kate should have been replaced if possible oh hey look that's you cool

Roxy's list of opinions is really a list of a lack thereof. None of these have any substance or conviction. Would lynch.

DrWilgy is a perpetual mystery to me (and I know he likes it that way). Would lynch.

As for the artist formerly known as Zenon, I don't understand the vote on me, and when I asked about it, I see I got a "Let's." Would lynch.

I would lynch Syn for putting [D3] in the beginning of the title because it throws me off regarding the "new posts since last view in this tab" feature.
Abigail doesn't kill Falcon. Please advise.

I thought falcon was a consensus civilian. Was I wrong on that point? I remember someone saying so.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 4:19 pm Skimmed Epi's ISO and I don't think there's any solving in his D3 that isn't directly linked to self defence.

It's just his case on me, opening the PoE via having three nulls + one scumread, some LAMIST-y posts and trying to get people to stop using the PoE strat: all of which directly benefits him in survival.

I'm not seeing any evidence of him trying to solve outside of that.

Self-defense makes a great deal of sense. The way of the world now is to make a list and mow 'em down. I was next.

We may not use the same strategies, but I don't roll over when people vote me, and, on the rare instances when I am lynched as a civilian, I am going to make people feel silly for doing so.

In the days before locked Nights, I even had a wonderful gif of a late comedian to rub it in. I'll have it saved and ready to go if I do get the boot.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:59 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:55 pm I see unvote currently has a 50% chance of going over instead of me.

So that's reassuring.
hi! nice to meet you!
could you give me a quick rundown of your thoughts?

I'm sorry, I don't think I'm going to make it with the time I have. I haven't been home.

I presently would not lynch Wiml or Michelle. I realize that's probably not much help. I made a big ass case against WIml, but I think Wiml handled my whimsical turn as best as could be expected. Michelle reeks of genuine frustration.

I think Kate should have been replaced if possible oh hey look that's you cool

Roxy's list of opinions is really a list of a lack thereof. None of these have any substance or conviction. Would lynch.

DrWilgy is a perpetual mystery to me (and I know he likes it that way). Would lynch.

As for the artist formerly known as Zenon, I don't understand the vote on me, and when I asked about it, I see I got a "Let's." Would lynch.

I would lynch Syn for putting [D3] in the beginning of the title because it throws me off regarding the "new posts since last view in this tab" feature.

_ExLight wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:59 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 3:55 pm I see unvote currently has a 50% chance of going over instead of me.

So that's reassuring.
hi! nice to meet you!
could you give me a quick rundown of your thoughts?

Hello. Likewise.

I'll keep this quote open in another tab and try to power through what I'm behind. I'll give you a summary as soon as I can before the deadline. I've been a mess for about a week.

The short answer for now is "Don't lynch me."

I'm six pages behind and have to work in an hour.

So that's reassuring.

Pretty sure not.

I see unvote currently has a 50% chance of going over instead of me.

So that's reassuring.

Let's talk Abi. Your vote is on me. It shouldn't be.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:14 pm
So but says Epi us bad but brain says he's good.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:02 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 3:46 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:11 am Epi what changed from you calling everyone town and having no suspects yesterday to opening the PoE to everyone minus Michelle and Roxy today?
You have been bemoaning the "threadstate." So I found a tree and shook it.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:11 amThis lines up exactly with what your gameplan for victory needs to be if you're a wolf.
If.
How does what you're saying here tie into my thoughts on the threadstate?

I made the best case I could make against you last night. Shit, I even woke up feeling kind of good about it.

I was hoping to see more than 80% of the posts being yours, but we'll settle for what we get I suppose.

As for what you call "threadstate," I think things are stagnant, and hopefully my diatribe above sheds some light on why I think that is.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:02 pm (And yeah for the second part, there are obviously logical explanations for how you could have gotten to that point with your reads as town but it's concerning that if I were asked "how does Epi approach this situation here if he's a wolf and needs to win this game?" I'd probably answer "exactly the same approach as he's playing here" so it rings some alarm bells for me).

And sometimes I just make shit up and see what happens.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:49 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:26 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:22 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:17 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm

Do you fear Abi more than you fear me?
Yes
I'm not a wolf this game because if I were a wolf I'd be more townread.
You were universally town read until today.
Yeah and one more day of that and this game would have locked with my nightkill.

But what I actually meant (semi-jokingly) was that as a wolf I am very confident in my ability to get townreads just from my posting and not interactions with other teammates. It's one of the reasons why I very rarely bus (the other being that I can rarely survive F3 situations due to paranoia about my survival since I tend to get halfway ruled even if I don't bus).
Talk to me about bussing please. Why not?
I don't bus the vast majority of the time.

It's not that I philosophically have an issue with bussing. I simply try to approach games as a wolf in the most +ev way and I rarely consider it to be optimal to bus in the situations I most commonly find myself in:

- I'm a pretty good coach + very active manager in wolf chats and often times my teammates simply do not need to be bussed even if they're normally weaker wolves.

- I am usually too townread in the early game by posting alone to substantially benefit from bussing. If anything, getting excessively townread tends to be detrimental in the long run as I'm a wolf who's biggest weakness is probably somebody saying "just halfway rule him if he's alive too long". Might as well burn that towncred on flipping some villagers instead of cannibalising my partners for minimal gain.

- People are too paranoid of me for me to consistently win F3s. The easy alternatives are to allow other partner/s to bus me and win with less paranoia or to powerwolf and just win with all my partners alive.

- I am confident in my ability to spew my partners town while simultaneously defending them (and spew villagers wolf for after I flip).

Obviously I still need to bus sometimes and if people come into games with me expecting me to powerwolf or for some other reason bussing seems +ev then I'll turn round and weaponise that against them in a heartbeat. But I'm definitely a powerwolf at heart lol.

I don't know you and you don't know me but

Spoiler: show

I'll say one thing if somebody can find me a soapbox.

That'll do, thank you very much Wilgy, you are a gentleman and scho- HEY There's a fucking nail sticking out of this one!

Ahem.

I get the rationale behind "POE" and why it's appealing, but I don't think it's an advantageous way to carry on in general. I think it's rather dangerous.

It's psychologically appealing to feel like you've got it in the bag three days out. You don't though. It's also demoralizing, particularly to those who have neither the time nor inclination to post a great deal.

I think Quin showed up, saw he was halfway out the door and said "Fuck it mates, I'll be at the barbie" or whatever folks in his neck of the woods say when they can't be bothered.

"Town core" is even worse. That's a parlay bet. If one leg of the parlay is wrong, you lose.

So yeah, JJJ is dead and I'm pissing in his tool box. And he can't do a damn thing about it but rage from beyond the grave and dream of how he'd get me if he was alive. Alas. Alack. Alex Trekbek.

For real, I understand those tools. They can have their place and be effective despite what I said above.

I definitely don't think they're very helpful here. I say that because Lime Coke, 50% of the mafia faction, is dead and had a whopping 26 posts. There's so little to work with.

As Wilgy (and perhaps someone else) mentioned, we're effectively hunting a serial killer at this point.

So when someone says, the POE is "Quin, Epi, and Kate," I know right there the damn thing is 33% fucked. I now know it's 67% fucked. You're banking on it not being 100% fucked.

That will be all Wilg- SON OF A BITCH how'd you get another nail in there while I was addressing the crowd?

Nobody is lynching Wiml today. That would be epically goofy.

Maybe Day 4.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:04 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 3:57 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:54 pm Epi is hard because I have a perpetual bad read on the slot.
Is that what's getting it going for me? I had no idea.
You've got a playstyle that I also find pretty tough to read tbh.

It's called a sense of humor.

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:20 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:08 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:05 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:03 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:01 pm

Bruh
Hombre you know why I can't clear you this game, as much as I'd like to.
Why can't you?
Fear
Do you fear Abi more than you fear me?
Yes
Wtf why I'm not even good ...

Appreciate the confession. [VOTE: PA] aubergine

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:54 pm Epi is hard because I have a perpetual bad read on the slot.

Is that what's getting it going for me? I had no idea.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:38 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:27 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:15 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:56 am Town Core

Wilgy
Roxy
Wiml

Probs Michelle is town and I'm letting earlier emotions get to me again.

I think Kate is less likely to play this way as wolf but I think Kate is unlikely to play this way as either alignment so I'm trying not to read too hard into that

Epi is probs just a wolf.

GGs
Talk to me more about the bolded please. Why the suspicion I have gives you emotions?
I think my feelings for what happened D1 have been pretty on my shoulder and I don't really want to rehash it. I'm acutely aware that my emotional state can sometimes impact my reads negatively.
You're doing a good job there Abi (and I'm sure JJJ agrees as well).

I'd like a minute for rebuttal.

(Just kidding- I get the context)

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:11 am Epi what changed from you calling everyone town and having no suspects yesterday to opening the PoE to everyone minus Michelle and Roxy today?

You have been bemoaning the "threadstate." So I found a tree and shook it.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:11 amThis lines up exactly with what your gameplan for victory needs to be if you're a wolf.

If.

Popping in to [VOTE: Unvote] aubergine for now.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:27 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:14 pm I bet Syn has a bunch of bugs loose in the house and that's how this mafia game came to be. Clean up yo shit Syn. Clean it up. Can't have no nastiness.
I'm gonna tell your sons they can buy 1500 live ladybugs on Amazon for $10

We get those bitches for free.

I bet Syn has a bunch of bugs loose in the house and that's how this mafia game came to be. Clean up yo shit Syn. Clean it up. Can't have no nastiness.

I'm booooooooooooooored

I think Michelle is good.
I think Wiml is bad.
I could go either way on PA
Same with Wilgy.
I don't think Roxy is bad at this time.
Unvote is always solid.

Shit, to be clear, that's:

"Someone from spoiler chat, please let me know how I'm doing. Amen."

Someone from spoiler chat let me know how I'm doin.

JJJ has it rather backwards. It's Michelle who is civilian. Wiml is mafia.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.
Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.

Oh this post is fun.

JJJ said, "I'll pass."

I'll say, "I'll play."

Wiml is Lime Coke's teammate.

I'm comfortable using JJJ's post above for reference.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:33 pm Associations of Lime Coke and Wiml

From Lime Coke

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:39 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:56 am @Lime Coke do you have an initial impression of Wiml?
Neutral currently since I'm sort of afraid of reading him after failing twice spectating his Champs games.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.
Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:45 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:04 am [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, YOUNG MAN!?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:48 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:23 am I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.
Yes I like to use the "I'm scared" thing as a joke in moments and in the tone of me trying to act tough or like I'm about to do something huge.

The shift tends to get people since they don't expect it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:33 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:22 am

Is there a reason you had an issue with falcon voting Michelle but not me doing the same?

I sa in atm it
Falcon also voted JJJ before Michelle.

You did not.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:56 pm Sorry yesterday was busy as hell for me and today relatively the same.

Granted I knew about today, yesterday's wasn't expected.

Anyways....

I'm way far behind so my reads have been messed up.

I see that Wiml at least is giving me a chance so I'll lean town there.

Idk who else I'm completely lost.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:09 pm [VOTE: Wiml] aubergine

A lot of this is pretty bland tip-toe behavior, which could be interpreted as "Wiml is someone I have to pretend to be paranoid about because of his champs performances" or "Wiml is my teammate, and I must be cautious not to expose him". I am honestly content to ignore all of it.

The last two posts are funny. Hey everyone, look at this WIFOM!

I'll pass.

From Wiml

@Michelle open the spoiler below at you're own risk while on mobile. It's going to be enormous.

Spoiler: show
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:23 pm I know a reasonable number of players here (although the only person I have significant playing everyone with is Lime Coke) and I've seen everyone else minus Quin play at least once since I specced a couple recent games before deciding if to sign up or not.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:32 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:24 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:23 pm I know a reasonable number of players here (although the only person I have significant playing everyone with is Lime Coke) and I've seen everyone else minus Quin play at least once since I specced a couple recent games before deciding if to sign up or not.
Anyone you think you're particularly well-suited to read correctly?
I used to have a good read on Lime Coke back when we were both MU regulars. I had his slot as my top wolfread while speccing the game Abigail hosted recently but that's the only time I've seen him play in real time in about a year so I'll probably need to take some time to refresh on him.

Abigail I've seen play in real time a bunch (mostly as town) and I feel like I've got a good shot at reading her as well.

There are a few other players I think will be very readable with meta once I've gone over them more thoroughly but I just don't have any real time experience with watching them play.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:43 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:39 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:56 am @Lime Coke do you have an initial impression of Wiml?
Neutral currently since I'm sort of afraid of reading him after failing twice spectating his Champs games.
There's no need for people to force a read on me rn so it's fine.

Now that it's daytime for me and people have posted I've actually got the chance to play for real.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am @Lime Coke why the Falcon vote?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.
Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.
I never make that post as a wolf lol.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:04 am [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:20 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:17 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:56 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Spoiler: show

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.
I am never scared when I am town and when I am wolf I try to hide it. Why are you scared?
No reason it was just a joke.
Really? It didn't seem like one to me.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:26 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:23 am I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.
I interpreted it the same way so I'm not sure what you're meaning?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:36 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:28 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:26 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:23 am I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.
I interpreted it the same way so I'm not sure what you're meaning?
If I am correct in that interpretation, Lime Coke can validly call it a "joke", but it still demands clarity about what in that post inspired unease about you.
Brad's wolfy because he identified a completely valid post to scumread me based on (even if I'd argue I'd never made that post as mafia, that's total WIFOM) but is very hesitant to push on it. This was just a mild ping at the time but I wanted to move off of Michelle and he seemed like a reasonable vote for that reason.

And then his "it's just a joke" post I reacted to made the above significantly more apparent by totally backing down on it imo (which is where our interpretations seem to differ) and was the point where I started actively considering him to be wolfy.

Wolf-Brad knows I have a reasonably good read on him and have a high chance of burying him later on unless he pockets me. I also used to OMGUS a bit in the past. So wolf-Brad almost never wants to genuinely try to push on me.

So I find his pointing out a genuinely reasonable reason to scumread me and backing off as "just a joke" to be wolfy from him specifically.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:06 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:55 am Well that's unfortunate.
If you're town then I have faith we'll get there eventually on you dw.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:10 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.
Please expand on all of these that you haven't already expanded on.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:10 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:54 am I do have some gripes with Lime Coke.

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

The last time I saw this post (the gist being "JJJ seems really town now, not like last game when he was mafia") it came from mafia WildZoo in one of the SDN games I linked for Wiml.

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:26 am Whom I THINK can be a wolf is...

....

....

THIS GUY!!!

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

falcon was my top town read as of this moment, and to drop this vote without engaging me (or anyone else town reading falcon) in some capacity is a bit off.

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:29 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:27 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.
Talk to me about Abigail pls
Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

Kinda farty

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:32 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:31 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:29 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:27 am
Talk to me about Abigail pls
Mostly vibes while reading her posts.
She has good vibes as wolf too.
You're not wrong.

I'll see how the rest of the day plays out for her I'll tone the read down a bit.

Not sure LC cares about his Abigail read. This "tone it down" move came right after I said the same thing, but with barely any qualification or exploration of the topic.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
I broadly agree with this post as well.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:22 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:14 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:06 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:05 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:55 am Well that's unfortunate.
What do you think of the reasons I gave for town reading falcon?
Farty.
I laughed.

Why do you read me as town if my town read on your suspect is farty?
I actually used that because you used it to describe my post and I though it was funny.

I just looked at it.

I think my thing was seeing him vote you and Michelle, mainly Michelle, and thinking it was bad.

Your townread on him I can maybe see from your POV with how he was reading you specifically.
Though I think the "Voting him until he creates a towncore" kind of just feels like a fake thing to use just to set a bar however high he wants and not give credit.

I'm back and forth on the read itself I'll have to see him a second go around.
Is there a reason you had an issue with falcon voting Michelle but not me doing the same?

I saw somebody say in a prior game that falcon making these sort of aggressive pushes like on Michelle was his town meta (and although that's not something I'm putting a tonne of stock in atm it does line up with what I've seen from Falcon's play in prior games recently).

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:33 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:48 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:23 am I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.
Yes I like to use the "I'm scared" thing as a joke in moments and in the tone of me trying to act tough or like I'm about to do something huge.

The shift tends to get people since they don't expect it.
This seems reasonable enough.

What was the intention in quoting that specific post of mine, then?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:32 am @Lime Coke

This might be the only time we play together for a while since I'm not yet sure if I'm going to keep playing FM or go back to retirement.

So if you're town you gotta impress me today and show me how much you've improved firsthand since we last played together, right?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:37 am Lime Coke, talk to me more about your perceived meta differences between JJJ this game and when you last saw him wolf?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:11 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:55 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:41 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:24 am Jay, Neon, & Michelle all prolly town
I think that's there at max 1 wolf in this list of names.

What does your read list look like? Do you have a color arrangement a la Jay?
Not worth doing a rainbow since I'm on mobile and the difference between tiers of my reads is pretty minimal rn.

I'm townleaning you, Michelle and to a lesser extent JJJ pending some ISOs.

Abigail I have as more likely town than not as well.

Most of these players (minus JJJ) I'm somewhat happy to write off as town and just keep an eye on for now. I don't think that there's more than 1 wolf in the top 4 posters due to the threadstate and disassociatives between all of them so I'm pretty happy just sitting back and letting them cook even without a super strong set of clears. You I've had as low priority due to being an easier read once you've posted more.

Lime Coke I lean wolf on.

Everyone else is a shrug from me.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:41 am I like the general vibe of Lime Coke's posts and think he sounds fine. I hesitate to pull the town trigger, because the falcon vote is like a direct shot into my green pile. That doesn't make him mafia or even wrong, but it's something I have to reconcile.
What did you like about Lime's posts at this point in time?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:46 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:39 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:38 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:31 pm @Wiml uh I guess I can detail Epi in that I form reads from vibes and tone. Epi's tone seems different than last game and it bugged me thinking he could be bad but last two times I thought he was bad he was in fact town. The basis of my read.

@DrWilgy I am so sorry to hear this feel better soon <3 hope you have had a vaccine <3
Thanks for answering!

Is there anybody in this lobby that you'd consider yourself to have a good read on?
no it's way too early to be sure (at least for me) how about you?
There's nobody in this playerlist that I'd be shocked if they flipped against my reads rn but there's a few players who I'd be impressed with if they pulled off this strong of an entrance as mafia (falcon and Michelle come to mind).

Over time I'm hoping to be able to read Lime Coke and Abigail well in particular and will probably try to focus on trying to find villagers in the less active / busier players.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:22 pm I think in particular this game, falcon feels a lot more personally invsted in the game than there.

I think he actually cares about his read on Lime Coke and isn't just sitting back eating popcorn. I feel like he cares about the game broadly as a whole and is actually trying to push the gamestate forward with his posting and the questions he's asking.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:52 pm My PoE is also Lime Coke / Kate / Quin / Wilgy with Epi on the verge of the but being townier than the rest.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:36 am Lime Coke dipping after getting pushed, not caring to solve and only coming back for a lolcat-style post gives me a good idea about his alignment atp.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:46 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:42 am It feels like we have w/w wagons
Very plausible, although I would at this rate have a strong preference for flipping Lime Coke.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:37 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:00 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:10 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:54 am I do have some gripes with Lime Coke.

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

The last time I saw this post (the gist being "JJJ seems really town now, not like last game when he was mafia") it came from mafia WildZoo in one of the SDN games I linked for Wiml.

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:26 am Whom I THINK can be a wolf is...

....

....

THIS GUY!!!

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

falcon was my top town read as of this moment, and to drop this vote without engaging me (or anyone else town reading falcon) in some capacity is a bit off.

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:29 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:27 am
Talk to me about Abigail pls
Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

Kinda farty

Spoiler: show
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:32 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:31 am
She has good vibes as wolf too.
You're not wrong.

I'll see how the rest of the day plays out for her I'll tone the read down a bit.

Not sure LC cares about his Abigail read. This "tone it down" move came right after I said the same thing, but with barely any qualification or exploration of the topic.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
I broadly agree with this post as well.

"Broadly?" Why this qualifier? What does it mean? What do you specifically disagree with in this post?
"Broadly" because JJJ came to similar conclusions as I did but I didn't have the ability to comment on every single point he brought up. I was saying that I agreed with what I could comment on and agreed with the overall conclusion of the post.

To go point-by-point:

1. Can't comment on JJJ's personal experiences but I think the lazy treatment of JJJ's slot demonstrates a lack of paranoia about JJJ's alignment that I absolutely would expect from Brad (something which he displayed elsewhere in his treatment of me for example).

2. Fully in agreement. Lime Coke also went after obvtown!falcon early on after subbing into Cyberpunk and did a similar thing to described here.

3+4. Weak explanation demonstrating a lack of thought behind his reads and further demonstrating a lack of concern about accuracy. Also got the impression that he didn't care about his reads and had to back down because he couldn't justify his (poorly-conceived) reasoning.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:44 am I don't think that a potential wolf-Lime Coke just gives up under pressure if one of his initial strong pushers (JJJ) is actually a wolf bussing him.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:53 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:45 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:04 am [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, YOUNG MAN!?
Pointing this out as another point where I think town-Lime Coke would have tried to engage with me instead of superficially react but stay way clear of defending himself / trying to read me / trying to actually engage me.

(Lime Coke's post here with the big text is a joke response for people who weren't aware).

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:58 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:53 am I think everyone that hasn't already should share their new impressions of Quin.
I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.

Going through ISOs because it's getting kind of rough to find teams that aren't Lime Coke + Kate/Abigail and even then I'm not all that sold on Abigail.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:13 am Currently leaning towards a world where if Lime Coke is a wolf his partner doesn't have a lot of thread control.

Not really confident that we're living in a world where two players with the potential for being very active, capable wolves are sat not doing a whole lot to influence things while both are getting run up and wagoned.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:15 am Like, I'll have to review it but I don't think wolf-Abi would really see town-Michelle as a viable counterwagon to w/w wagons and I don't recall her doing a lot outside of that to actually change the direction the game is heading in, if you get me?

Nor does that seem to particularly align with Lime's behaviour.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:18 am Ftr I'm open to hearing people's reasons why Lime Coke is town.

I'm struggling to see it atm but I don't like to tunnel onto people too strongly and I'm very open to changing my worldview with new content / evidence.

Ideally points why Lime is town in a vacuum instead of trying to address the case on Lime and say why you think it's wrong. The latter won't really help atm.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:06 am Ftr I am not fully sold on a Wilgy/Lime unalignment (based on the logic of the early falcon sheep vote) in large part due to Lime's big loss of WIM.

It doesn't matter at the moment but I'm bringing it up in case Lime flips wolf and I subsequently die so Wilgy doesn't get blindly cleared without at least a review of that logic.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:23 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:14 am This is honestly very interesting and I think it's due to a lack of history, but I assure you Wiml, I'm the last person to be cleared.

Like almost ever and under any circumstance. I don't think you need to worry so much about that.
Yeah, that was primarily indirect response to JJJ since he said he'd not have you in his extended PoE due to disassociatives if Brad flipped wolf unless I'm misremembering.

If a town loses a mountainous game with a D1 wolf flip, it's more often than not due to misclearing (or at least mis-removing-from-PoE) somebody because of spew (or at least on MU it tends to be, idk meta here well) so I'd feel pretty guilty if I saw a possible case of that happening in real time, ignored it and then it turned out you were Lime's partner.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:48 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:31 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:23 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:14 am This is honestly very interesting and I think it's due to a lack of history, but I assure you Wiml, I'm the last person to be cleared.

Like almost ever and under any circumstance. I don't think you need to worry so much about that.
Yeah, that was primarily indirect response to JJJ since he said he'd not have you in his extended PoE due to disassociatives if Brad flipped wolf unless I'm misremembering.

If a town loses a mountainous game with a D1 wolf flip, it's more often than not due to misclearing (or at least mis-removing-from-PoE) somebody because of spew (or at least on MU it tends to be, idk meta here well) so I'd feel pretty guilty if I saw a possible case of that happening in real time, ignored it and then it turned out you were Lime's partner.
If you wish to see Brad and I teamed up, I'd browse cyberpunk.

However, them flipping wolf here I think makes assoc reads almost -ev due to the lack of content. I remember once an argument was made that if a wolf goes over d1 it's bad dudu for the town as it becomes a game of find the sk.
I've read most of Cyberpunk in real time since I was at one point a possible sub for that game but ty.

I don't think otoh that there's a lot of direct interactions here that would be all that meaningful if Lime flipped wolf but I think there are enough players who seem unaligned with Lime (Falcon, JJJ, to a lesser extent probably Abigail and possibly others I'm forgetting) that looking at potential teams is at the very least still useful.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:15 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:57 pm Why are yall voting for 7up?

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:59 pm Let me guess, without reading, princess Abigail has used ATE to get yall to move off her?
There's a bunch of cases on him but Lime got moderately pushed for being wolfy and then seems to have lost all motivation and stopped posting in a way that seems kind of outing for him.

He's only posted once since early in the cycle and that was to post a non-game-related meme before dipping.

Lots more context but you'll see it when you catch up.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:18 pm @Lime Coke if you come back I'm very happy to try working with you.

Just please don't wait until right at EoD to show up if you're town.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:21 pm I'm very much not expecting Lime to be a villager at this point but I want to make absolutely sure to give him every opportunity to prove me wrong if he's town.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:26 pm If Lime flips wolf then I'm expecting a comfortable game for us.

My biggest concerns are just some absolute hellworld where Lime gave up and started lolcatting as a villager for some reason??? But I'm really struggling to see him not even weakly try to solve or do something game related on his re-entry if he actually was a villager.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:28 pm While not a full wolf streak, I know that Lime's had a couple of other wolf games in the last few weeks so he might just be feeling burned out from those as well.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:35 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:28 pm I’ve seen Lime Coke receive suspicion as town on a number of occasions, and this was never the result in the past. He has usually continued playing, either giving faith that folks would come around or developing his own reads.
Thanks. I'm glad this lines up with your experiences with him as well.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:10 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:56 pm Sorry yesterday was busy as hell for me and today relatively the same.

Granted I knew about today, yesterday's wasn't expected.

Anyways....

I'm way far behind so my reads have been messed up.

I see that Wiml at least is giving me a chance so I'll lean town there.

Idk who else I'm completely lost.
Hi Brad, do you have an idea of how much you'll be able to read before EoD?

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:11 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:09 pm [VOTE: Wiml] aubergine
What caused the 180?

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:14 pm I... sincerely hope that Lime Coke isn't town.

Will wait for his catch up.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:28 pm Lime Coke's probably not coming back, is he?

(Appreciate the responses, taking my time going through them).

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:16 pm Wilgy, will you please move back onto a non-vanity wagon before EoD? Just to avoid shenanigans since Lime will probably self pres at some point.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:25 pm Oh that thing I was going to say closer to EoD.

Was just going to make note of the fact that Lime Coke left some pretty bad spew in Cyberpunk that let me correctly narrow down the last wolf as a spectator to exactly Wilgy without reading the game in great detail.

Spew reads from a D1 flipped wolf are something to be very, very cautious of as misclears there are often the cause of lost games but I think for Lime in particular spending a bit of time looking at how he approached people early on and how others approached him might benefit us. Just take clearing people on spew alone with a pinch of salt (especially later on).

Just stuff I wanted to out this in case we flip Lime and he's wolfing + I die.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:35 pm A lot of my legacy is just under the assumption that we flip Lime Coke and he flips wolf which is the most likely scenario where I die.

Kate is the most likely wolf, followed by Epi/Quin followed a large gap then Wilgy and Abigail.

Falcon's almost always town. Michelle/JJJ very likely to be town but scrutinise if alive for too long. Roxy probably also just a villager but without quite the same level of confidence.

If we don't flip Lime then my legacy is that he's a wolf.

I definitely didn't need to include all of those, but at a certain point somewhere I decided to be obnoxious. So have the whole thing.

The simple answer is "why even bother, Wiml buried Lime Coke, they're not teammates, the end" -- but we're a thorough town in Cool Bugs Mafia. We turn the stones. Clearly Wiml played a pivotal role in eliminating Lime Coke. This big analysis post isn't necessary for us to know that. So let's consider the minutiae, because if Wiml is mafia, that's the only way he'll be located. Are there better reasons in this mass of information than "Wiml buried Lime Coke" to trust Wiml? I think there are a few. Let's see:

Green - I mentioned in my review of Michelle that Lime Coke had kind of recoiled from her pressure with that "It was a joke" moment. So you'll see a progression here in which Wiml takes that moment and turns it into interrogation. In that sense, he isn't missing a beat in a moment when, his "mafia teammate" (hypothetically) is already in an awkward spot. Most teammates leave that alone instead of jumping on it immediately and making it worse. So I think that's a good thing for Wiml.

Orange - You'll note that on a few occasions, Wiml makes it known that he is willing to hear the town side of the story from or about Lime Coke. This kind of thing can easily be lip service, so that it's there is less important than how it's executed. Did Wiml actually give Lime Coke a chance? I think he did. He asked LC numerous questions about various different dynamics in the game thread, which offered him a variety of avenues to find his way back into the good graces. I think that's a good thing for Wiml, because it evidences that he was genuinely trying to make that possible in the absence of total certainty. He was confident, but he didn't know that Lime Coke was mafia. In that sense, I don't see TMI in Wiml's treatment of Lime Coke.

If the above was faked in a deliberate bus, then Wiml deserves a lot of credit for crafting that dialogue so well. He is a very good player in the mafia alignment, and that sometimes leads to paranoia or base assumptions that "if it's possible, it's true". One must make a judgment: I don't think Wiml is Lime Coke's teammate.

~~~

Conclusion

I don't think anyone has Wiml in their crosshairs right now, and I am fine with that. The above contains the nuanced details if anyone wants to go deeper than just "played a key role in eliminating a mafioso".

Bumping this for analysis.

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