The Syndicate

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:08 pm Did you vote for mesk for information or because you suspected her?
Both things. Have I seriously not made that clear?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:08 pmIf you are a civilian, why are you "low-key" suspecting someone?
It was her first game here, I didn't want to lynch her right away. I wanted to give her a chance, but I suspected her from day one when she buddied me.

All this information is readily available to both of you if you want to just search my posts in this thread for Mesk mentions.

How did she "buddy" you? She was a fucking a civilian. You lynched her because you were absolutely 100% wrong about her intentions and you can't be assed to say so OR you are bad. Which is it?

I swear to God people around here need some Gatorade.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:11 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:04 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:55 pm I didn't excuse my vote for Dom as "for information."
Epig everything in mafia is done to gain information. Your argument on that point is semantic at best.
No. It isn't. I am a highly successful Mafia player and I don't do shit to gain "information" (as you apparently use the term).

If you come back and tell me that "information" is somebody voted for a guy who flipped mafia, I will tell you that isn't information. That's a fact that everyone knows and everyone is free to interpret differently.

You have not given me ONE PIECE of information from the Mesk lynch that is unique from what we might have learned had Dom gotten lynched instead. You've provided what you think, who voted where- so fucking what. None of that is information. It's opinion. It's hot takes. It's garbage. It's whatever you deem it to be.
Epig what do you think "information" is? Do you think that vote analysis isn't part of gathering information? Do you think that meta reads aren't part of information?

I don't believe that you don't do things in mafia with the intention of getting information with them, I'm pretty sure you're just not agreeing with me on the definition of what information is.

I don't care about discussing what "information" is.

That isn't my problem with you.

My problem with you is that you are content with lynching someone because it will "help you" in the future.

Fuck that.

Lynch someone who is bad.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:07 pm Extrapolating information is the silver lining we can pull out of the aftermath of a lynch, if we put the work in. If we're lynching purely for information, we're lynching for the wrong reasons.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:07 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:00 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:55 pm I didn't excuse my vote for Dom as "for information."
Epig everything in mafia is done to gain information. Your argument on that point is semantic at best.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:55 pm Do you think your vote for mesk is directly equivalent to Epi's vote for Dom much earlier in the day?
In what way is it different?
Epi cast his vote for Dom early in the day phase when the other leading bandwagon was a player he firmly reads as town and with some stated precedent for voting for Dom.

You voted for Mesk because everyone else was doing it at the last second.
sorry I guess I didn't realize that voting for someone I've been low-key suspecting and pushing for most of the game is somehow more suspicious than is actually just "doing it cus everyone else was doing it"

If you are a civilian, why are you "low-key" suspecting someone?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:03 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:56 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:43 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:41 pm
but also, don't ever tell me what to do.
Hypocrisy.
it's different cus he was rude about it and interrupted my philosophy lesson.
i said please
please doesn't automatically make something polite, this isn't the 1840's

That's good news for you. If it were, I would have a literal rope.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:59 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:55 pm I didn't excuse my vote for Dom as "for information."
Epig everything in mafia is done to gain information. Your argument on that point is semantic at best.

No. It isn't. I am a highly successful Mafia player and I don't do shit to gain "information" (as you apparently use the term).

If you come back and tell me that "information" is somebody voted for a guy who flipped mafia, I will tell you that isn't information. That's a fact that everyone knows and everyone is free to interpret differently.

You have not given me ONE PIECE of information from the Mesk lynch that is unique from what we might have learned had Dom gotten lynched instead. You've provided what you think, who voted where- so fucking what. None of that is information. It's opinion. It's hot takes. It's garbage. It's whatever you deem it to be.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:53 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:43 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:33 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:28 pm huh interesting.
gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks
Spacedaisy, Nutella
Jay, epignosis

but also, don't ever tell me what to do.
You've been talking with Epi for a while and I've been loosely following along. what is the crux of your suspicion of him?
I mostly named him cus he was fresh in my mind and your wording implied you wanted answers quickly. Our discussion has nothing to do with him being a suspect, I'm actually just interested in the philosophy, and I don't even think of him as a big suspect.

He's been neutral but leaning slightly towards mafia since he came after me for voting Mesk when he also was going to vote for Dom. I understand his Ralph Waldo Emerson anecdote but I don't think Ralphie was talking about opinions you state within the space of 24 hours.

I didn't excuse my vote for Dom as "for information."

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:41 pm
but also, don't ever tell me what to do.

Hypocrisy.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:11 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:37 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:34 pm what is the hobgoblin?
You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.
Oh! So it was a joke/reference to Ralph Waldo Emerson? Not necessarily a comment on your beliefs about logical inconsistencies in relationships to mafios.

(It was a good joke, it made me laugh AND it made me learn.)
Glad to hear it.

I do agree with Emerson, however, as his comment applies to our present situation.
Can you explain how? (for those of us who barely skimmed the essays description on wikipedia)

The criticism raised against me is that I have been inconsistent.

The truth is, in Mafia, I don't care about being (or even looking) consistent.

I am not interested in holding onto a view I had Day 1 when I change my mind Day 2 or 3. Outsiders will accuse me of being inconsistent. To that I say, "So what?"

Emerson believed that purposeless consistency was a demon. If you hold fast to something without challenging why you hold fast to it, then you are probably doing yourself a disservice.

It is the mafia that try to look consistent. Civilians have no reason to be such.

Which, of course, raises some very fun issues with respect to game theory.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:26 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:37 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:34 pm what is the hobgoblin?
You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.
Oh! So it was a joke/reference to Ralph Waldo Emerson? Not necessarily a comment on your beliefs about logical inconsistencies in relationships to mafios.

(It was a good joke, it made me laugh AND it made me learn.)

Glad to hear it.

I do agree with Emerson, however, as his comment applies to our present situation.

Don't let Eloh fool you. She just solved a game of Clue on her first turn.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:34 pm what is the hobgoblin?

You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:05 pm hobgoblin, explain

Are you asking me to explain something? If so, what do you want explained?

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:56 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:49 pm Dom was a top suspect of mine until it became apparent that one individual could submit actions for an entire team.
you mean "any" individual can submit actions for an entire team, right?

Correct.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:49 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:43 pm If you lynch somebody, it damn well better be because you think that person is bad, not because you need the more "informative" lynch. If you aren't lynching people you think are bad, I'm sure there's a simple explanation for that.
I love this post.

You had a vote on Dom for a bit. Did you think he was bad while you did have a vote on Dom?

Dom was a top suspect of mine until it became apparent that one individual could submit actions for an entire team. That doesn't mean I was going to take my foot off the gas. He remains a suspect by default.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:06 pm I mean, my read on Epi was town before. I just hate inconsistencies and anything hypocritical that stands out I feel should be questioned.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:08 pm
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little mountains."

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:35 pm Several people have given their opinions on Mesk no one has mentioned Dom like at all other than to say he hasn't said anything.

None of that is information either.

If Dom is bad, then people blew it lynching Mesk over him, because that cost a civilian, and the mindset of "Well gee, nobody is really talking about Dom so let's not lynch him" allows his role to continue to get by without contributing, and people who fail to vote mafia can shrug their shoulders and invoke the "This lynch would give better info" excuse.

If you lynch somebody, it damn well better be because you think that person is bad, not because you need the more "informative" lynch. If you aren't lynching people you think are bad, I'm sure there's a simple explanation for that.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:30 pm Epiiiiignoooooosiiiiiiiis. I'm sick and I'm also tired.

Lynching mafia gives us context to help lynch more mafia.

Alignment and role flips are information that help us piece together the puzzle that is the game that we're playing.

I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

You're not explaining anything to me. What information did the Mesk lynch provide that the Dom lynch could not have?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:16 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:02 pmI don't agree with any of that. A lynch doesn't give you any more information than the alignment and role of the victim.
Wait what are you even talking about? How do you even play mafia like that? Do you just vote for whoever and then regardless of how they flip you move on and always ignore the past lynch results because they have nothing to do with anything and the information gained from them is all self contained and can't be used to view things in new contexts?

What information other than an alignment and role do you get from a lynch?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:02 pm
What elucidating jewels of information did the Mesk lynch drop into your lap?
As explained, Mesks' flip would have been more informative if bad. She flipped civ so less informative.

I don't think her lynch was a waste though. I think some fuckery occurred near the end of the phase involving Jay. I also think Dunyas reaction to the lynch is worth dissecting.

The first bit is just repeating that the Mesk lynch yielded information. It doesn't answer the question, "What information?"

The second bit isn't information either. It's what you think.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:58 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:45 pm
Lynching someone so you can get information is a cop out. Anybody can claim he or she voted someone because the lynch would provide information. It removes any responsibility from the voter for casting the vote.

The objective isn't to use lynches to guide future lynches- that is going to happen regardless. The objective is to use lynches to eliminate people who you believe hold roles you need eliminated to emerge victorious.
The point of lynches is 1. to find baddies, and 2. put the community in a better informational position for future lynches. Our position right now is one where anyone can technically be mafia as much as anyone else and it is hell.

A Dom lynch would have given us 0 insight on who else could be bad regardless of how he flipped. A Mesk lynch would have given us possible links. Something to work with.

It's not the best but it's better than lynching someone you don't suspect

I don't agree with any of that. A lynch doesn't give you any more information than the alignment and role of the victim.

What elucidating jewels of information did the Mesk lynch drop into your lap?

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:45 pm @speedchuck
Those 3 points are all irrelevant to my reasoning.

I am town, and Mesk may have been scum (I didn't think so, but still).

To everyone else, I am 50/50. Lynching an inactive 50/50 town/scum or lynching, to you, an active 50/50 town/scum?

I will never see it as a safer bet to lynch someone with no posts after 2600 friggin' posts. Lynch anyone at this point so you can actually start links and patterns.

Yeah I was upset, I have been staying up till 4am every night in hopes of clearing my name (spriyto) and adding something useful. I was 100% sure before I fell asleep last night there was no inactive lynchings. I'm not being condesending or self-righteous, I think it's very scummy to go after an inactive after 2600 posts and 12 days worth of actual CONTENT. we're approaching Day 4. We have one townie flip (and it was an important role) to an inactive player who we can't read much into. It's not rocket science

I'm really sorry everyone, I am sad, but I don't want to be condescending that is awful and not who I am.

If you are 50/50, the game is sorely unbalanced.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:22 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:09 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 pm I wish you'd have lynched me, even! I wouldn't have even been mad. That would have been more useful than a Mesk flip.
eeeeggghhhhhwwwwwgh

If you're defending this, I hate you too.
Oh you voted for Dom.

Please tell me, how you thought a Dom flip would assist us in scumhunting more than any other player.

If you're telling me after 2600 posts itt you didn't have any better leads than Dom, then you're scum.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 pm dunya please keep in mind the spaghetti nightmare that occurred during the eod3 during your analysis. The vote was down to Dom and Jack and most of us chose Dom over Jack, some of us switched our votes. Then Mesk was brought up as a better alternative to lynching Dom, which was accurate. If Mesk had flipped bad we'd have something to chew on. Then Jay got brought up and votes went everywhere, there was a 4 way tie at one point and at another point, a couple minutes from the end, Jay had the most votes at 5, and seemingly a second later Mesk was in the lead again.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:37 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 pm I wish you'd have lynched me, even! I wouldn't have even been mad. That would have been more useful than a Mesk flip.
I also agree that this is a pretty weird thing to say. What information would a civvie dunya flip give us?

Lynching someone so you can get information is a cop out. Anybody can claim he or she voted someone because the lynch would provide information. It removes any responsibility from the voter for casting the vote.

The objective isn't to use lynches to guide future lynches- that is going to happen regardless. The objective is to use lynches to eliminate people who you believe hold roles you need eliminated to emerge victorious.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:43 am Hopefully this isn't huge as hell and is legible on mobile.

Gun to head reads results

Spoiler: show

Please let me know if I entered your shit in incorrectly.

3J had Mesk as good.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:20 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:18 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 am Mesk514
what about her
I agree with you that the base logic behind a Mesk lynch is similar to that of a Dom lynch, but it's a more substantive option.

3J voted Mesk over Dom because...Mesk posted more than Dom did? What is this anarchy?

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:33 am
Epi, it's like you had a stroke, and no longer understand simple things anymore.

Mesk and Dom are considered zeroes because of lack of content. So they're equal at zero, lynching either low poster has the same value. BUT! Mesk has some content that is suspicious. So she gets notched one point to the negative, making her a relative -1 to Dom's established zero. Clearly, the unspoken value system places suspiciousness at a lower number than Civvishness. If there had been a hypothetical third low-poster who had one or two posts that really rang Civ, then they might have been +1, less of a good lynch target despite being a near-equally low poster.

I refuse to believe that you have lost the ability to understand simple concepts. Therefore you are pretending to not understand as an agenda. Maybe the agenda is to make the baddies think twice about killing you, and maybe it's to make the Civs think twice about lynching you. OR some third option, but there's damn well something going on with you here, and this kind of fakery makes me suspicious.

No. Mesk had a point in her favor, and I pointed it out on Day 1, but you called it "buddying."

How's my long game going so far? How's that "buddying" working out for me with my "buddy" lynched?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:51 am I'm going to goddamn sleep.

Goddamn right you will be.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:39 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:37 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:31 am To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?
I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.
Bullshit. The latter has no content to compare.
That's the point. -1 is less than 0.

-1 is less than 0. I don't even know what that means. I mean, I do, but not in this context.

I would like Long Con to analyze this line of thinking. He likes telling me I'm full of shit. Maybe he can have fun with you for a chance.

I have a few racial slurs I'd like to issue, but all ya'll honkies are white.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:41 am I don't like the vote I just cast. Jay is bad.

I don't like the vote you just cast. I want to say nasty things about you.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:35 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:24 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:22 am Yeah, the Dom lynch will give zero info. I'll go Mesk.

*vote Mesk*
So much for inspiration.
Dom, as a choice, was never that inspiring.
I'm voting Dom?

No. I'm voting 3J. You're voting Mesk.
Why can't we communicate?

Because you insist on saying stupid shit about me. That isn't conducive to communication. It's conducive to me thinking you just want to try to get one over on me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:31 am To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?
I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.

Bullshit. The latter has no content to compare.

Mesk is basically an inactive who has been around from the beginning and was therefore able to submit Night kills. She expressed confusion about being a Little Mountain, which sounded genuine to me. I don't support that lynch.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:24 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:22 am Yeah, the Dom lynch will give zero info. I'll go Mesk.

*vote Mesk*
So much for inspiration.
Dom, as a choice, was never that inspiring.

I'm voting Dom?

No. I'm voting 3J. You're voting Mesk.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:29 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:25 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:18 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:15 am Mountain Mafia [DAY 3]
k well there's shit all I can do about that beyond continuing to play the game.
Elohcin is low-hanging fruit and I didn't find your case against her to be tremendously convincing. She's said a few odd things, but I don't see your case moving in a meaningful direction. Just pointing out a few instances of said oddities. I didn't see you digging deep into her, or anybody else. It was another vomited read.
I'm not going to pretend my case was some home run. This isn't far from being the second week of Day 1. It's the material which has most triggered my suspicion to this point. I don't think any of the cases made in this thread to this point that I have seen have been tremendously convincing. Look at the tally right now. Are we on course to lynch someone based upon a thorough, convincing case?

Civilian JJJ wouldn't care what the tally was right now.

You are bad.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 am actually nah, my most confident read is jay. Let's lynch him.

With you.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:50 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:48 pm
That is not all that surprising.
I don't care about surprising you.
Rude!

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:50 pm I care about getting you to make good decisions.
Cross-page two-parter... nice.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:27 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 am Feels way different from ME Epi, which is the last bad Epi I can remember. So that makes him look better.
I was not bad in that game. I was an independent who ultimately chose to side with a bad team.

I'm going to rip your arms off and beat Long Con to death with them because of this failure to understand simple independent mechanics.
Yeah, my Indy role could win with the Civvies, and Epi's Indy role was designed to become a baddie. Please don't group us together.

My role was designed to become bad? You are clueless. I chose to-

Never mind. You think I chose who responded to Elton John lyrics. I don't have to try to understand you.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:22 am Yeah, the Dom lynch will give zero info. I'll go Mesk.

*vote Mesk*

So much for inspiration.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:15 am This strikes me as you are bad and circumstance is robbing you of people to accuse.
What does a civilian Elohcin look like?

These days? The same as a mafia Eloh.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:10 am Absolutely nobody has resisted a Dom lynch at any point in this game, that I can recall.

Why should anyone?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:03 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:55 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:49 am The primary defense I have seen fielded for Elohcin is "that's just how she is". I don't agree with that. I don't make these observations about her in every game. Hell, in many of her recent games she just hasn't made enough posts to facilitate (hi Quin) these observations.
What does a civilian Elohcin look like?
The first thing that comes to mind is a willingness to throw a vote into a consensus without inserting analytic or intuitive effort into that. She often doesn't even play catch-up, but rather gives the thread the finger (especially when it's a highly-active game), and I think I've seen that from her more than once as a civilian.

This is about a read at face value of her sincerity. Any player, regardless of their "style" or "tendencies" is capable of seeming insincere in a game. I don't always have this perspective of Elohcin.

This strikes me as you are bad and circumstance is robbing you of people to accuse.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:49 am The primary defense I have seen fielded for Elohcin is "that's just how she is". I don't agree with that. I don't make these observations about her in every game. Hell, in many of her recent games she just hasn't made enough posts to facilitate (hi Quin) these observations.

What does a civilian Elohcin look like?

Another issue that bothers me about 3J is that he hasn't placed his vote on anybody.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 am Feels way different from ME Epi, which is the last bad Epi I can remember. So that makes him look better.

I was not bad in that game. I was an independent who ultimately chose to side with a bad team.

I'm going to rip your arms off and beat Long Con to death with them because of this failure to understand simple independent mechanics.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:15 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:09 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:08 am Is it too late to push colonialbob again?
No, but I need to hear exactly why you suspect Jack.
Even if I've changed my mind?

I didn't note that you did.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:09 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:03 amShe's sick and doesn't know her head from her arse.

What troubles me most about you is that you act like Eloh is going to get Dunya lynched by lacking a "clear progression." How is she going to accomplish that?

To put it another way, what is her M.O. as mafia in this scenario? You looked at all her posts. What is her strategy? How does she help her team (who hasn't killed anybody, by the way)?

Your analysis looks like a weak means of being relevant to me. It isn't at all persuasive.
The causal link you draw here does not reflect the point I want to make. I don't think Elohcin would be intent to try to get dunya lynch "by lacking a clear progression". That doesn't make sense. Indeed, the goal of getting dunya lynched would be secondary to the goal of looking like a player who is trying to solve the game. My concern is that Elohcin is in pursuit of appearances, not some long-game mafia-aligned objective or strategy. It's the most fundamental face value read there is. Players who are mafia-aligned in a game with only one mafia team want to look the part, and sometimes they struggle to do so.

That's a fair take, although one I don't agree with.

Do you think Eloh is trying to look like she's trying to solve anything?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:08 am Is it too late to push colonialbob again?

No, but I need to hear exactly why you suspect Jack.

Are people honestly afraid of lynching 3J? If so, why?

I cannot recall a single time that has happened.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:57 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:49 am Yes. I would lynch him. Hence my vote at this hour. I think he is doing busy work, not real work. His token look into Eloh doesn't help my opinion. She is always exhibiting the characteristics he is "penciling in" as bad (inconsistent, no clear progression). It doesn't help me work out who is bad. It looks like busy work.
The lack of a clear progression was one thing I brought up, specifically re: the dunya read. Do you think the concerns about face-value sincerity I discussed also reflect the Elohcin norm?

She's sick and doesn't know her head from her arse.

What troubles me most about you is that you act like Eloh is going to get Dunya lynched by lacking a "clear progression." How is she going to accomplish that?

To put it another way, what is her M.O. as mafia in this scenario? You looked at all her posts. What is her strategy? How does she help her team (who hasn't killed anybody, by the way)?

Your analysis looks like a weak means of being relevant to me. It isn't at all persuasive.

For now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:52 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:35 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:00 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:55 pm How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?
If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.
This makes you a suspect for me. For real.

The deadline isn't in five seconds. I didn't ask you if Dom is a good five-second candidate. I asked you if he's a good lynch. Your response was nothing more than a way to put your vote on him at the end if that's how things worked out.
The dude has two posts. I've said often that I think a focus on the low-poster end of the spectrum would be a good idea, and he fits within that paradigm. I have nothing else to say about Dom. I would lynch Dom before Jack if that's where the tally rests when the time runs out. Discussion on more substantive suspicions prior to that moment may net a more inspired (hi Quin) option.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:35 amThis is all discussing Mafia, but not this Mafia.

JaggedJimmyJay
dunya made an assertion about meta perceptions of sig and speedchuck and my applications thereof. I answered that assertion by describing why I would apply a meta read to one guy and not the other guy.

That works for me.

Back to Dom.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:47 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:45 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:40 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:39 am Hey Epig, by voting for Jay you're not so much putting Jay at a greater chance of lynching as you are putting Jack and Dom into potential close tie scenario
Should this concern me?
Whether it concerns you or not is up to you. Do you want to lynch Jcubed?
What?

Oh. J^3. Got it.

Yes. I would lynch him. Hence my vote at this hour. I think he is doing busy work, not real work. His token look into Eloh doesn't help my opinion. She is always exhibiting the characteristics he is "penciling in" as bad (inconsistent, no clear progression). It doesn't help me work out who is bad. It looks like busy work.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:45 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:40 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:39 am Hey Epig, by voting for Jay you're not so much putting Jay at a greater chance of lynching as you are putting Jack and Dom into potential close tie scenario
Should this concern me?
Whether it concerns you or not is up to you. Do you want to lynch Jcubed?

What?

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