The Syndicate

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:59 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:44 pm Eloh, what is your opinion on Jack?

TBQH, he's not even really been on my radar. I would need to go through and read him more. Jay said he was full of shit. Could be distancing, but who knows. Jay's gameplay was super odd for him.

Very well.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:16 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:12 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:56 pm Epignosis, you're being needlessly difficult about this and while I'm enjoying talking with you about it I don't see it as being actually relevant to moving the game forward in any way. Its not my job to teach you basic symbolic logic.

Yet you keep trying.

I suspect you. And I'm not interested in "symbolic logic." I am interested in how you showed no interest in lynching 3J until it became a "thing" again.

You or LC will get my vote as it stands tomorrow.

If you suspect me then build a case and stop wasting my time.

No. I'm going to leave you to it. Carry on.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:04 pm @Epignosis

these are the basics

No thanks. Your examples showed me all I need to know regarding the credibility of that link.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:56 pm Epignosis, you're being needlessly difficult about this and while I'm enjoying talking with you about it I don't see it as being actually relevant to moving the game forward in any way. Its not my job to teach you basic symbolic logic.

Yet you keep trying.

I suspect you. And I'm not interested in "symbolic logic." I am interested in how you showed no interest in lynching 3J until it became a "thing" again.

You or LC will get my vote as it stands tomorrow.

I've been waiting for LC to come in and tell me I threw 3J under the bus. Alas, I am disappointed.

I want to know why LC voted against 3J Day 3:

JaggedJimmyJa
3
18%
Voters: Epignosis, nutella, Long Con

then voted speedchuck Day 4:

speedchuck
3
17%
Voters: Elohcin, Long Con, malakim2099

++++

LC keeps saying he suspects me, but he has never followed through on that belief.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:07 am Well, with Jack, it started with his mirroring of my stance in the Epignosis Day 1 stuff, and he's just seemed super-scummy to me in, frankly, a non-stop way. I haven't said much because there has been plenty of suspicion on Jack, which I seriously approve of.

Epignosis, well, on one hand he's being impossibly contrary, which is just his nature, but on the other hand I can't shake the feeling that he and Jack are teammates. Little interactions, too-ironic-to-not-believe faketeaming, just the way they played both sides on me during Day 1. Epignosis is notoriously inscrutable, but gun to head I still suspect him.

And speedchuck... I totally forget why, but I know he's my third of Top 3 Suspects. I'll post this, and get back to you on speedy.

He has Jack as bad, me as his teammate, and then...ends up voting speedchuck after "totally forget[ing]" why.

If speedchuck is in your top three suspects, to the extent that you would ultimately vote for him, you should know off the top of your head why you think he's bad.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:41 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:29 am speedchuck stuff
TMI Alert. My initial reception of speedchuck's handling of LC/Epi was a positive one, but I disagree with myself now.

In a scenario where both Epi and LC are civilians, speedchuck has exonerated one and defended the other based on what I perceive to be pretty dubious premises. High-roading both of them, by essentially suggesting both were being dumb instead of being suspicious, may be suggestive of unique information in speedchuck's possession -- information which could only come from a mafia alignment at this point in the game.

Exactly how I feel about that.

Exactly how he feels about that.

LC has done little more than hound me over the stupidest shit, and here he is agreeing with mafia 3J about speedchuck in a scenario where both of us are civilians.

Fuck outta here.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:51 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:45 pm If you believe nutella is bad, explain how she survived Day 1. I don't want to hear about why she's alive now, or what her take on JJJ was. If you believe she is bad, show me mechanically how she survived Day 1.

anyone else who voted Long Con was Everest for starters: Elohcin, colonialbob, Sloonei, Kylemii

nutella voted for self preservation, the other 4 voted because out of conviction Long Con is scum and not nutella.

Very well. Did nutella know she wasn't going to be lynched? If not, why not?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:48 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:12 pmThat's an inference. Not information.

if you're good enough at figuring shit out, a quality set of inferences is as good as proven information.

In the context of Mafia, that's false. Proven information is indisputable. "Figuring shit out" never is. If you have figured out that I'm bad 100%, and I get lynched, and it's proven that I'm not bad, were you still right?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:48 pm Dilemmas become facts when one side of the dilemma gets disproved. If your inferences contradict each other you know you fucked something up along the way.

"Dilemmas become facts?"

What the hell are you talking about? Do you know what a dilemma is?

A dilemma involves two choices, in which both choices have one or more undesirable consequences.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:48 pm i.e. either bigfoot is real and owes me money, or bigfoot isn't real and mothman exists
bigfoot can't owe anything to anyone cus he is above capitalism

under the outlined parameters of this hypothetical scenario it can be safely assumed that mothman exists since the only universe where bigfoot can exist is one where he owes me money.

I'm glad I'm not paying your college tuition.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:48 pm

I would know this with absolute certainty?

No. No, I would not. Why?

Your eldest is Edgar Winter.

*gross man deleted*

The eye color thing is a metaphor. 0: for the sake of the comparison you have to assume the only eye colors are blue green and brown, just like the only alignments in this game are small mountain, big mountain, and alien mountain.

If you assume there are other teams outside of the ones we know exist then we wouldn't get anywhere because so many statements would become invalid and we'd get stuff like "sure Epignosis seems civ but what if he's a part of a secret mafia team that isn't listed anywhere?"

Edgar Winter isn't gross. That's a rather rude thing to say about an albino and famous musician. You may have heard his work:



The eye color "metaphor" wasn't a metaphor. It was an analogy. And it was a lousy one.

I am not assuming there are only three eye colors because there aren't. There are three alignments in this, and I'm not talking about a secret mafia faction.

Nobody has INFORMED me that three people have three different alignments (which is what your eye color analogy requires). Nobody has informed anyone of that.

If you believe nutella is bad, explain how she survived Day 1. I don't want to hear about why she's alive now, or what her take on JJJ was. If you believe she is bad, show me mechanically how she survived Day 1.

Sloonei's writing is delightful. A+

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:15 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:24 am I feel you, dunya. It's entirely plaisible we all crossed nutella off our lists prematurely. Her behavior before the lynch was what did it for me, though, and not her reaction to it. She seemed to anticipate that a tie would happen. It's possible this was just a gambit that miraculously paid off. But the question of why she's still alive is a good one. I think there are answers thay don't have to involve her being scum, but it's still worth addressing.

If I were bad, I would not have killed nutella. I would have tried to target more dangerous civilian roles. If nutella is Everest, the trait passes down anyway- so it isn't a net gain of anything.

You're forgetting the tie on Jack and Sloonei Day 2. If nutella was Everest, (which we will say is possible for sake of this argument and since you assume she's not being killed because scum think it's not important to kill Everest when K2 inherits their ability, and they could take out other more important roles????----which are never revealed so they never know who they are taking out), Jack would have been clearly lynched vs Sloonei. Since he analyzed that situation as much as Sloonei, I feel he is not Aconcagua or Pico Cristóbal Colón. Plus, 2 empty night kills makes me feel Aconcagua was definitely targeted at night.

Also I completely disagree that taking out Everest and trying to figure out who K2 isn't important. I think they have the most dangerous day roles. Lynch shenanigans are a very important tool for scum. Their priority would be Everest and K2 imo.

I'm not forgetting anything. I stated why I would not have killed nutella. What am I forgetting that would have caused me (as mafia) to have targeted nutella with a kill?

I never said that killing Everest or trying to figure out who K2 was would not be important (for mafia, I assume). You are putting words into my mouth. I said I would not have killed nutella given the data I had. The assumption and follow-up question I saw was that mafia would have killed nutella, so why is she alive? She must be bad, right?!?! My answer to that is that I would not have killed nutella because her role (if Everest) would gain nothing, since the extra vote passes on anyway. Regardless of whether or not I know what role I kill, I would have a chance at killing a more terrifying civilian role than Everest or K2.

And I don't agree with you that Everest and K2 have the most dangerous roles.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:00 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:39 pm "Facts."

The only facts you learn from a lynch are the role and alignment. Those are your facts.

You are talking about the interpretation of facts. Interpretations are not information.

Epig come on dude. You've already shown you've taken a philosophy class in your lifetime so you have to know that that's not how it works.

If I say I have three sons with 3 different colored sets of eyes, one of them has green eyes and the other has blue eyes. What do you know about my third son? He probably has brown eyes. You'd know that without being told directly because you used other pieces of information to figure it out.

That's an inference. Not information.

And my inference would be that you are man-whore.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:00 pm What if I told you I had 3 sons with 3 eye colors and I ONLY told you that the third son's eyes are brown? You'd know that between my other two sons, one of them would have blue eyes and one of them would have green eyes. You could still state with absolute certainty that between Son A and Son B, one of them has blue eyes.

Even when you can't determine which son has blue eyes, since you know that son C has brown eyes you can say for a *fact* that either son A or son B has blues, at which point it's your responsibility to dig into what other evidence there is to narrow it down further.

Symbolically speaking that is my approach to scum hunting, on a much smaller scale.

I would know this with absolute certainty?

No. No, I would not. Why?

Your eldest is Edgar Winter.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:06 pm
JaggedJimmyJay - EGH
JJJ is never scum.
No, but really, I don't know what he'd be like as scum. If he's leading, and leading well, mafia will probably kill him and take care of things for us. If they start killing other leaders and JJJ takes control of the game, wipe him.

Don't sleep on this.

speedchuck was anti-JJJ without giving a damn about his alignment.

Eloh, what is your opinion on Jack?

"Facts."

The only facts you learn from a lynch are the role and alignment. Those are your facts.

You are talking about the interpretation of facts. Interpretations are not information.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:53 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:37 pm
I read thia post abd think...sure...could be true and sig could be JJJ's teammate. But I also think this maybe be baddie kyle finding a way to put suspicion and attention on someone other than himself. I cannot decide.

I'm not concerned by what you think of me. This shit right here? It's finally in my wheelhouse. This is the part of mafia that I play for. Analyzing bonds between players post-mortem, reevaluating players' past motivations after a reveal, dismantling the mafia's plans piece by piece after a hole's been punched through their armor?

Hell. Fucking. Yes. This is my shit.

Still not information.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:24 am I feel you, dunya. It's entirely plaisible we all crossed nutella off our lists prematurely. Her behavior before the lynch was what did it for me, though, and not her reaction to it. She seemed to anticipate that a tie would happen. It's possible this was just a gambit that miraculously paid off. But the question of why she's still alive is a good one. I think there are answers thay don't have to involve her being scum, but it's still worth addressing.

If I were bad, I would not have killed nutella. I would have tried to target more dangerous civilian roles. If nutella is Everest, the trait passes down anyway- so it isn't a net gain of anything.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:25 pm

No. The word "information" has a set meaning, especially in the context of Mafia.

That's not true at all, thats not even true from an English teacher standpoint. Language is in constant evolution. Words have multiple definitions and in this case information is facts that can be used to inform future choices and decisions.

What facts do you gain from a lynch? You gain a role and an alignment. That is all. All the other facts you either already know because they are in the thread. What you keep referring to as "information" is "interpretation."

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:25 pm

I kept asking you what information would have been gained from a Mesk lynch that any other lynch couldn't provide, and you couldn't answer. Ergo, lynching people because it is perceived that information will be gathered from the lynch is evil. It is evil all the time. JaggedJimmyJay just did it and he was bad. He knew better and somehow he did it anyway.

Lynching to get information is lynching to get closer to endgame under the disguise of looking helpful. You aren't helpful. Neither was JJJ.

I'm not going to respond to you on this particular topic unless you can prove to me that you're willing to actually read my posts. I've responded to you about what we could have learned from Mesks' lynch had she been mafia that we wouldn't have learned from Dom's lynch. I've pointed out that I was the earliest to suspect Mesk. You've neglected to pay attention to any of that.

She was not mafia. Even if she was, you wouldn't learn anything except for that fact and which mafia member she was.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:25 pm

What information did 3J's lynch give you?

JJJ's lynch gives us a baseline for figuring out who his teammates are and also which players are unlikely to be his teammates, for example you're not likely to be mafia because you held a strong stance against JJJ over the course of a couple games.

"but Kyle that's not information that's just an opinion, I'm an English teacher so my rigid view of the English language only allows for one definition for each word and the only thing that qualifies as information is anything the host says in host posts"

Not true, Epignosis. Mafia is a puzzle game centered around using facts in conjunction with inductive reasoning to figure out who's linked and unlinked and ultimately solve the puzzle of who keeps killing everyone. Each host confirmed nugget of Intel puts a new pin yarn dot string on that big old cork board that when completed helps us win the game. If you disagree then that's on you.

You keep misusing the word "information," and I am not even close to being tired of informing you of this.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:21 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:34 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:25 pm but now that I have to explain the premise of the joke it just seems kind of mean spirited. Sorry Marmot, love you.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:16 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:09 pm epig, the only reason I welcomed JJJ was so I could make fun of Marmots spelling mistake. I love making fun of people's spelling mistakes, it's like my favorite thing.

I made the malakim??? Post cus I'd never met or heard of malakim before on this website

*Marmot's

*mistakes; it's

Uh oh, who invited famous Victorian Era English writer and social critic Charles Dickens to play mafia with us and what did he do with our dear friend Epignosis?

Charles Dickens had a lot of sex.

So does Epignosis.

With whom?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:59 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:55 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:42 pm I called Epi's case bad. Which it was. You've just rejected the "why" for that perspective because [insert some dumb reason here]. I'm not defending myself because I don't need to. You're in a tunnel. Get out of it.

What is the why?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:48 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:46 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:45 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:43 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:41 am

Got none. Epi's case just sucks.

what sucks about it?

It rejects common sense.

How so?

<------------------------------

No reason provided.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:54 am "Jay lynched Mesk over Dom even though he had a GTH town read on Mesk because Mesk had posts and that's suspicious" was his case. That's not even a misrepresentation.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 am What is worse for me is that 3J elected to vote Mesk over Dom because...Mesk had more to say? That's shit, and 3J should know it's shit.

That's a bad case and he should feel bad for making it.

No reason provided.

I said why once. Good enough for me. Unless you're interested in turning me into a cheap lynch, you'll look for yourself.

No. This isn't how it works. Quote a link. I'm not digging through your posts. I don't have the time.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:42 pm I called Epi's case bad. Which it was. You've just rejected the "why" for that perspective because [insert some dumb reason here]. I'm not defending myself because I don't need to. You're in a tunnel. Get out of it.

What is the why?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:48 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:46 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:45 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:43 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:41 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:40 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:38 am

I fundamentally disagree with you but that isn't particularly shocking to me.

what's your best argument for jay being town?

Got none. Epi's case just sucks.

what sucks about it?

It rejects common sense.

How so?

<------------------------------

No reason provided.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:54 am "Jay lynched Mesk over Dom even though he had a GTH town read on Mesk because Mesk had posts and that's suspicious" was his case. That's not even a misrepresentation.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 am What is worse for me is that 3J elected to vote Mesk over Dom because...Mesk had more to say? That's shit, and 3J should know it's shit.

That's a bad case and he should feel bad for making it.

No reason provided.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:32 am I moved my vote to Epignosis because his case rejects common sense.

Like here's an example. Epi was 109% right about Jimmy.

Quin hasn't been the only fellow accusing me of bad logic or pretending not to know anything.

As of now, I would call the mafia 3J, Kylemii, malakim2099, and one other.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:17 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:33 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:54 am I want to look at Jack today, I agree with K2 that something seems off about him.

I feel a little better about epignosis every time he says literally anything other than a defense against LC's thing which.... fuck, idk. I think maybe he's just weird.

Maybe he's "just weird."

This is a vague, non-committal answer about me that gives you the leeway to say anything else you want about me later on. There was plenty between LC and me to comment on, and you settled on "just weird."

That is not an adverb and adjective I want to hear from somebody who has been more inclined to lynch people for "information."

Epignosis, no offense but you are weird. You dwell on language and you argue hard while ignoring clear logical fallacies, sometimes you use logical fallacies to support your arguments. You view the game differently than I do and that makes you weird to me. You do and say stuff that, if it were anyone else, would make me think they were purposefully being wrong or manipulating others and that's what makes you weird to me, and it's why "weird" is an important data point for me when trying to read you.

You've used the word weird in other contexts. It's a terrible word. It says nothing.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:17 pm Like even now you're using the word information with a different definition than it was meant, and ignoring everything that I've ever said about Mesk.

No. The word "information" has a set meaning, especially in the context of Mafia. I kept asking you what information would have been gained from a Mesk lynch that any other lynch couldn't provide, and you couldn't answer. Ergo, lynching people because it is perceived that information will be gathered from the lynch is evil. It is evil all the time. JaggedJimmyJay just did it and he was bad. He knew better and somehow he did it anyway.

Lynching to get information is lynching to get closer to endgame under the disguise of looking helpful. You aren't helpful. Neither was JJJ.

Why did you secretly vote for speedchuck? I saw it. Then your vote was on 3J when it was all said and done. You had talked more about speedchuck than about JJJ.

You are not trying to be transparent. You are looking to get your sorry ass team to endgame.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:17 pm Jaggedjimmyjay flipped mafia and that gives us information and context for who his teammates might be. Do you disagree that that's a true statement?

What information did 3J's lynch give you?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:17 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:54 am I think someone else pointed out though that without epigs bad responses the case is basically built out of mundane garbage

That person was...

Spoiler: show

speedchuck, the person you voted without announcing it, before you voted for 3J, after which you said:

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:45 pm Jay's iso case posts read sincere to me.

without saying why.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:28 am Oh, Jay's back on the table.

You sound so enthused.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:17 amNICE!!!!

Fuck outta here.

I dont know what the point of the thing you said about speedchuck is, but I spent the end hours of day 3 reviewing the posts of all the popular lynch candidates, trying to decide who would be most likely to flip mafia. I started to believe J³ was civ because his efforts that day seemed authentic to me. I didn't see what motivation a mafia J³ would have for putting that much work into something that wouldn't be gauranteed to save his own ass. It didn't make sense to me.

What did you think mafia 3J would do under pressure?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:28 amI voted for speedchuck when it was Speedchuck vs Wilgy though I was pretty much ambivalent about the two. This part doesn't seem relevant to your accusation.

When Jay came back up as an option (I believe there were 4 or 5 votes on him and 3 votes on speedchuck) I took a leap of faith and voted for him, nutella's post explaining why a baddie J³ might be motivated to create the ISO's he was creating was a part of why I made that choice. Also I think it was Sloonei(?) who pointed out that the voters on Jay were some of the more trustworthy players.

So with that data in mind it seemed like J³ was a better choice than Speedchuck. So I took the leap of faith. When J³ made his "farewell I'm dying" post it read as sincere to me too. I wasn't actually convinced we'd done the right thing until he flipped Choco Hills like 3 hours later.

But why didn't you announce your vote for speedchuck? Why didn't you announce your vote for 3J? What have you to hide? It seems like plenty (but probably not caverns, if you know what I mean ).

Your vote would have never gone to 3J if other people hadn't voted there. 3J was dead meat and you cast a token vote on him. It didn't change anything. You abandoned your conviction of speedchuck when 3J was going down. And didn't even say so.

You also helped 3J lynch Mesk instead of Dom or anybody else:

Mesk514
5
29%
Voters: Kylemii, JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy, Quin, Sloonei

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:43 pm It is a weak reason to dismiss Kyle, but I believe him because he's a good person and it was a sincere apology and he's made a good effort to be as helpful and open as possible. It's reserved people I don't like.

I mean, where has Long Con disappeared to for example? After a heated Day 1 and 2, he's been much more quiet the last 2 day phases. I don't like that.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:25 pm also as of today I am applying a strict no empathy rule for this game because my gut is right and people playing with emotions on a RL basis are mean (Jay didn't do this but since we so actively communicate outside games, it was a free giveaway).

Are you dying of the flu? I don't care. Are you behind on 20 reports? Couldn't give a damn.

Damn you soft.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:25 pm but now that I have to explain the premise of the joke it just seems kind of mean spirited. Sorry Marmot, love you.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:16 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:09 pm epig, the only reason I welcomed JJJ was so I could make fun of Marmots spelling mistake. I love making fun of people's spelling mistakes, it's like my favorite thing.

I made the malakim??? Post cus I'd never met or heard of malakim before on this website

*Marmot's

*mistakes; it's

Uh oh, who invited famous Victorian Era English writer and social critic Charles Dickens to play mafia with us and what did he do with our dear friend Epignosis?

Charles Dickens had a lot of sex.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:54 am I want to look at Jack today, I agree with K2 that something seems off about him.

I feel a little better about epignosis every time he says literally anything other than a defense against LC's thing which.... fuck, idk. I think maybe he's just weird.

Maybe he's "just weird."

This is a vague, non-committal answer about me that gives you the leeway to say anything else you want about me later on. There was plenty between LC and me to comment on, and you settled on "just weird."

That is not an adverb and adjective I want to hear from somebody who has been more inclined to lynch people for "information."

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:54 am I think someone else pointed out though that without epigs bad responses the case is basically built out of mundane garbage

That person was...

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:15 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:49 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:13 pm JaggedJimmyJay has replace MovingPictures07

Forgot to say, welcome JJJ! thank you for replace MP

Exhibit A: you see, it's a joke because Marmot made a conjugation error or more likely just didn't complete the word he was typing, so I repeated the same error because I'm desperate to cling on to anything that gives me any sense of amusement in the cold and empty world we live in.

I got the joke. I noticed it the first time. My issue wasn't with the joke.

I noticed a lot of other things as well.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:09 pm epig, the only reason I welcomed JJJ was so I could make fun of Marmots spelling mistake. I love making fun of people's spelling mistakes, it's like my favorite thing.

I made the malakim??? Post cus I'd never met or heard of malakim before on this website

*Marmot's

*mistakes; it's

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:45 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:14 pm I have not read anything after the point at which Sloonei began writing [i/]War and Peace[/i],but I have a theory rolling around in my head. I will report after I have had to chance to shower, eat, and do basketball stuff.

interesting.

I believed you dont do sports

I'm a gambler, my dear.

Forget showers. I'm a mountain. I will be perpetually dirty.

First of all, Kylemii was, as I recall, a speedchuck voter who became a late JaggedJimmyJay voter.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:49 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:13 pm JaggedJimmyJay has replace MovingPictures07

Forgot to say, welcome JJJ! thank you for replace MP

I dwell on details.

Ordinarily, I would think nothing of this post.

But the preface hides a clue.

"Forgot to say"

JJJ replaced in at 1:13pm EST.

Kylemii then posted between 1:35pm EST and 2:50pm EST. His expression of thanks came at 2:49pm EST (and the post that followed was a quick off-topic post).

insertnamehere "replaced" Glorfindel at 8:53pm EST that same day.

Kylemii's next post was at 1:31am EST the next day. He stopped posting at 4:37am EST. I noted no expression of thanks to INH for replacing Glorfindel.

dunya replaced sprityo at 3:07pm EST another day. Kylemii began posting at 3:35pm EST, accusing Mesk, and interacting with the newly subbed-in dunya, but again, I notice no expression of thanks to dunya for replacing sprityo.

malakim2099 replaced Dom at 2:20am EST another day. Eight minutes later, there was an acknowledgement of malakim2099. Not an expression of thanks, but something ambiguous entirely:

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:28 amMalakim2099?

++++

The devil is in the details, to misappropriate a popular idiom.

Kylemii never thanked any of the other replacements for subbing in, but did go out of his way to thank JaggedJimmyJay for replacing MP, and even added a "Forgot to say." That looks innocent on the surface, but it's clear that Kylemii did NOT forget to say thank you to 3J for subbing in, because he said it.

He forgot to say it to the other three replacements.

"Forgot to say" implies that one ordinarily remembers to say something by nature.

This leads me to believe there was something going on between Kylemii and MP/JJJ that prompted him to say "thank you" to MP's replacement, as though he needed to say something positive to acknowledge MP's replacement, but not anybody else's.

I have not read anything after the point at which Sloonei began writing [i/]War and Peace[/i],but I have a theory rolling around in my head. I will report after I have had to chance to shower, eat, and do basketball stuff.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:54 am "Jay lynched Mesk over Dom even though he had a GTH town read on Mesk because Mesk had posts and that's suspicious" was his case. That's not even a misrepresentation.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:10 am What is worse for me is that 3J elected to vote Mesk over Dom because...Mesk had more to say? That's shit, and 3J should know it's shit.

That's a bad case and he should feel bad for making it.

I cried all last night to beat the band.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:36 am Perhaps the most convincing point to me that my vote is currently in the right place is this: I fundamentally disagree with Jay on Mesk. That never happens. Sometimes we pull different interpretations out of things. But I don't remember the last time when we were both town and he presented a case that I thought was flat out wrong and misguided. I feel that way when he justifies voting for Mesk.

She didn't offer a whole lot of reads, sure. She was also a new player in a foreign land where all of us are scorching the thread with our posts. She couldn't keep up. No one blames her for that. when I looked at her posts, even when she was alive, I saw a player who wanted to be involved and make a name for herself, but simply could not at no fault of her own. I don't buy this "no civilian value" argument, I don't buy that her posts had no utility. They served the function of Mesk trying to engage herself with the thread. That's the first step every civilian has to take.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:33 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:32 am I moved my vote to Epignosis because his case rejects common sense.

Same case I had when I went to bad 48 hours ago.

Speaking of...

I said "bad."

I meant "bed."

I'm getting lynched now, aren't I?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:32 am I moved my vote to Epignosis because his case rejects common sense.

Same case I had when I went to bad 48 hours ago.

Speaking of...

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:24 am Also: an absence of posts does have no civilian value. No shit.

The presence of posts with no civilian value is an actual cause for suspicion. Posts that do nothing are more suspicious than nothing that does nothing.

No. I don't agree, and I don't think you truly believe this.

It is insanely easy to create posts that look useful, especially early on.

When you called Mesk good, what was it in her posts that gave you that perspective? And why did you decide so very late in the Day that her posts had "no civilian value?" She had no new posts.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:22 am @Epignosis didn't you say you're voting for Jay? It doesn't look like you've voted in the poll

My mouse is old. Thanks for the notice.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:18 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:13 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:09 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:59 am What the hell is the point of "GTH reads" when you don't hold someone accountable for lynching someone he said was good over someone he said was bad when both were in hot water and neither had any additional activity?

I don't give two thirds of a shit what my GTH reads were. This is weak bullshit. Are you telling me that I am supposed to be mindful of my GTH reads and vote in accordance with them, that I am obliged to do that?

Fuck that shit. Quin mentioned Mesk. I looked at the Mesk posts which did exist and decided that a large percentage of them were of no civilian value. That's a more substantive reason to lynch someone than I saw for Dom, which was the absence of activity altogether.

No. Fuck your GTH bullshit if that's how it plays out. What is the point of those things if people aren't supposed to go back and figure out why a person suddenly changed his mind?

"Of no civilian value?" I don't agree with that. Mesk said shit. She even said a thing that gave me a good opinion of her. You didn't bother to take that into consideration, but golly, Quin pointing out how many posts she has is enough to sway your vote?

Dom's posts were "Of no civilian value." He had basically none.

You said something in this thread somewhere about someone else taking their perspectives as gospel -- here you go. One moment that you liked does not determine how I vote.

The point of those things is variable by the people who do anything with them. I use them in interactive analyses more than anything else. Other people might do different things with them. They're multi-faceted.

To be consistent between GTH reads and a vote is the easiest thing there is for anyone who has a reason to give a shit. I don't.

I was not demanding that you be consistent. You keep using that word, as if I care that you were inconsistent. I don't. I care more about why you were. Your turnaround against Mesk in favor of Dom came with no substantive reasoning. Rather than challenge people's votes for Mesk (which were weak), you...bought what they were selling?

Sorry- it doesn't add up.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:14 am does anyone feel like they can confidently say they have any idea what's going on in this game?

All the ladies gettin murked.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:11 am A GTH read exercise does not exist to dictate future votes -- that's the mindset of a mafioso who feels some compulsion to be "consistent". GTH reads provide content for future analysis, real-time perspective on the participants, and stances on every player.

I am in the future. And I am analyzing you.

I am looking at what you said. You did a 180 when BOTH your bad and good call became serious lynch candidates.

Are you seriously- seriously- going to tell me that if somebody else called Dom bad, Mesk good, and then at the eleventh hour decided for the flimsiest of reasons to vote Mesk instead of Dom, that you would not be digging into that voter?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:09 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:59 am What the hell is the point of "GTH reads" when you don't hold someone accountable for lynching someone he said was good over someone he said was bad when both were in hot water and neither had any additional activity?

I don't give two thirds of a shit what my GTH reads were. This is weak bullshit. Are you telling me that I am supposed to be mindful of my GTH reads and vote in accordance with them, that I am obliged to do that?

Fuck that shit. Quin mentioned Mesk. I looked at the Mesk posts which did exist and decided that a large percentage of them were of no civilian value. That's a more substantive reason to lynch someone than I saw for Dom, which was the absence of activity altogether.

No. Fuck your GTH bullshit if that's how it plays out. What is the point of those things if people aren't supposed to go back and figure out why a person suddenly changed his mind?

"Of no civilian value?" I don't agree with that. Mesk said shit. She even said a thing that gave me a good opinion of her. You didn't bother to take that into consideration, but golly, Quin pointing out how many posts she has is enough to sway your vote?

Dom's posts were "Of no civilian value." He had basically none.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:01 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:59 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:53 am Epi, they both enter into it.

If Jimmy thought Dom was bad and Mesk was good, how did those opinions flip?

Dom did nothing good. Mesk did nothing bad.

His opinions at EOD to vote Mesk were 100% false.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:43 am Hopefully this isn't huge as hell and is legible on mobile.

Gun to head reads results

Spoiler: show

Please let me know if I entered your shit in incorrectly.

Oh. I misinterpreted your post. Right then.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:53 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:52 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:50 am i think epignosis is bad again guys

Why?

Why are you treating a GTH read as static?

I'm not.

What the hell is the point of "GTH reads" when you don't hold someone accountable for lynching someone he said was good over someone he said was bad when both were in hot water and neither had any additional activity?

Only one had an actual case against them. And it sure wasn't Dom.

Uh...no.

JJJ said "Dom bad Mesk good."

His words, irrespective of whatever "cases" existed or did not exist.

By the end of the Day, 3J helped lynch Mesk. I see no progression toward this. I'm amazed that we're having this conversation, since the only reason he really gave was in a conversation with you:

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:09 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:08 am

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:07 am why aren't we all lynching Lasagne? For a low poster, she actually looks bad.

What's the worst thing you could say about Lasagne?

She has 24 posts, at least 20 of those say nothing but bolster her presence in the thread.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:20 am

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:18 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 am Mesk514

what about her

I agree with you that the base logic behind a Mesk lynch is similar to that of a Dom lynch, but it's a more substantive option.

So what inspired 3J to call Mesk good and Dom bad? He had the same posts available then as he did when he posted this. Nothing new came into existence.

What is worse for me is that 3J elected to vote Mesk over Dom because...Mesk had more to say? That's shit, and 3J should know it's shit.

I'm having one more beer. If anybody has anything they want out of me, you've got about ten minutes.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:53 am Epi, they both enter into it.

If Jimmy thought Dom was bad and Mesk was good, how did those opinions flip?

Dom did nothing good. Mesk did nothing bad.

His opinions at EOD to vote Mesk were 100% false.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:43 am Hopefully this isn't huge as hell and is legible on mobile.

Gun to head reads results

Spoiler: show

Please let me know if I entered your shit in incorrectly.

Oh. I misinterpreted your post. Right then.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:53 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:52 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:50 am i think epignosis is bad again guys

Why?

Why are you treating a GTH read as static?

I'm not.

What the hell is the point of "GTH reads" when you don't hold someone accountable for lynching someone he said was good over someone he said was bad when both were in hot water and neither had any additional activity?

I don't have the strength. I'm going to bed.

JaggedJimmyJay

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:50 am i think epignosis is bad again guys

Why?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:47 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:42 am 3J did not address my gravest concern, which has nothing whatsoever to do with his academics. He voted for Mesk despite calling her good in his exercise, and provided the poorest reason I think I've ever seen him give to justify his vote.

Indeed!

Melk posted zero times between Jimmy town reading her and his rousing pushes to lynch her over Dom.

It was never about getting Melk lynched because townie Jimmy didn't want Melk lynched. There is no townie Jimmy here.

Melk not posting doesn't factor into it. Dom didn't post either.

My thing is that I gave an early reason as to why I thought Melk was good (even if I wavered on it later) that I would have expected 3J to have taken into consideration before voting for her. That didn't happen.

3J did not address my gravest concern, which has nothing whatsoever to do with his academics. He voted for Mesk despite calling her good in his exercise, and provided the poorest reason I think I've ever seen him give to justify his vote.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:11 am Took a final look at vote tally. Epignosis is here. Hasn't weighed in or voted yet. Planning to vote late to have the most control over the lynch?

Why? Is Jack in trouble?

I am tired. And cranky. An eight-hour meeting run by someone who said my students will never learn how to read correctly followed by six hours of additional work has left me bereft of patience and any willingness to sit up much longer. I read the five or however many pages accumulated while I was gone and fought sleep in the process.

I am going to vote quite soon and then go to bed. There will be over an hour after that for other people to dictate the lynch however they wish.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:28 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:23 pm]

How did she "buddy" you? She was a fucking a civilian. You lynched her because you were absolutely 100% wrong about her intentions and you can't be assed to say so OR you are bad. Which is it?

I swear to God people around here need some Gatorade.

Her first post was talking about how she definitely read me as town and that she wanted to be best friends how is that not what buddying means?

Did you call her out on that then? I'm going to see.