The Syndicate

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:56 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:54 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:26 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:28 pm I don't really get the case on PSV (and lowkey want to vote Thunal for it)
Ehhh idk, I don't hate thunal for the case. She's wrong but I don't think she's wolfy for it, there were reasonable thoughts there.
idk, to me, the ISO looked like Thunal was trying scumreading PSV more than trying to townread PSV, putting things that I see as NAI as slightly wolfy and the things I see as towny as "slightly good" - I realize this could be just a clash in reads though

I didn't like the following reasons Thunal gave for scumreading PSV (which I assume are the main reasons for the PSV scumread based on how the post was formatted):
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:19 pm This pings me. Why am I here? There's no followup or reasoning on me from when PSV townleaned me other than me not being there which was completely NAI. I also feel like PSV's Seanzie read is lazy. Like, Sean had a lot of readable content yesterday and today but there's a lack of PSV actually analyzing that content.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:19 pm How to Make Player Salad: A Guide

Player Salad is the signature dish of The Syndicate. Those of you who have been following this tournament closely may have seen one of our head chefs, JaggedJimmyJay, teach the recipe to his fellow townies in Game 6. Player Salad is a dish which can sometimes confound people, but it's really quite simple. The basic recipe is this: "I could lynch Player X, Y, or Z. Maybe W." I am not one to rigorously argue for "mafia tells", but for whatever reason this one has an unusually high success rate. I suppose the above-mentioned configuration suggests that the player lacks conviction, and simultaneously feels a need to compensate for that lack of conviction by lumping several players together in an indistinguishable blend of suspicion: A salad, if you will. I will not say that it is 100% accurate or foolproof, but I give it some weight.
the first one is still fine - it's not super convincing but I can buy it coming from town
the second quote feels pretty fake and like it was just added to increase post volume (and it's probably also a copypasta)

player salad is also a very general reason to scumread someone
I am going to squeeze you. And not in a fun way.

I promise to sheep you for rest of game if I'm wrong

a word in Thunal's favor is that last game, when I was town and they were scum, they did make a show of trying to understand my meta and townreading me for a bit before scumreading me again
I don't think they did that to PSV here

but I also didn't read the rest of that game so idk lol

Dubz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:26 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:28 pm I don't really get the case on PSV (and lowkey want to vote Thunal for it)
Ehhh idk, I don't hate thunal for the case. She's wrong but I don't think she's wolfy for it, there were reasonable thoughts there.

idk, to me, the ISO looked like Thunal was trying scumreading PSV more than trying to townread PSV, putting things that I see as NAI as slightly wolfy and the things I see as towny as "slightly good" - I realize this could be just a clash in reads though

I didn't like the following reasons Thunal gave for scumreading PSV (which I assume are the main reasons for the PSV scumread based on how the post was formatted):

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:19 pm This pings me. Why am I here? There's no followup or reasoning on me from when PSV townleaned me other than me not being there which was completely NAI. I also feel like PSV's Seanzie read is lazy. Like, Sean had a lot of readable content yesterday and today but there's a lack of PSV actually analyzing that content.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:19 pm How to Make Player Salad: A Guide

Player Salad is the signature dish of The Syndicate. Those of you who have been following this tournament closely may have seen one of our head chefs, JaggedJimmyJay, teach the recipe to his fellow townies in Game 6. Player Salad is a dish which can sometimes confound people, but it's really quite simple. The basic recipe is this: "I could lynch Player X, Y, or Z. Maybe W." I am not one to rigorously argue for "mafia tells", but for whatever reason this one has an unusually high success rate. I suppose the above-mentioned configuration suggests that the player lacks conviction, and simultaneously feels a need to compensate for that lack of conviction by lumping several players together in an indistinguishable blend of suspicion: A salad, if you will. I will not say that it is 100% accurate or foolproof, but I give it some weight.

the first one is still fine - it's not super convincing but I can buy it coming from town
the second quote feels pretty fake and like it was just added to increase post volume (and it's probably also a copypasta)

player salad is also a very general reason to scumread someone

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:05 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:04 pm [VOTE: Thunal] aubergine

I see pyxxy and Dennis there
not sure on both slots but looks better to me than pyxxy wagon
Right after he said he's away? Wow. Noted.

I didn't see that but ok

actually, if someone who townreads Scotty can make a towncase on Scotty, I'd appreciate it

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:04 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:04 pm [VOTE: Thunal] aubergine

I see pyxxy and Dennis there
not sure on both slots but looks better to me than pyxxy wagon
It does???

maybe I'm just biased against Scotty

be back later hopefully

[VOTE: Thunal] aubergine

I see pyxxy and Dennis there
not sure on both slots but looks better to me than pyxxy wagon

oh sorry
should have spoilered the quote

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:50 pm I kind of liked these posts from PSV (some more than others):

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:07 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 am Porscha town

That’s all I know in this crazy world
Why is Porscha town?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm @Porscha what made you interested in Seanzie?
I hesitate to go Creature because even this is more active than he was in the one game I played with him frankly

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:52 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:45 pm I suspect Kate.
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:29 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:04 pm

Something someone once told me about how she approaches early game, I'm seeing it here.

Of course I could be wrong, but also [VOTE: kate] aubergine
Oh please elaborate, I'd love to hear this.

Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:50 pm I arrived late, I townleaned Dennis and then I talked about cannibalism lol

If you honestly think I'm bad, then you should and would stop being so cryptic. But I don't honestly think you think that. I actually think you wish I were bad.

But, alas, I am civ once again.
I interpret "wishing [Kate was] bad" as Kate thinking Falcon wants to catch her. If that's wrong let me know, but I think Kate is implying Falcon is town with this response. For most people, if someone is tunneling them it's natural to question the tunneler's alignment, but Kate said this, later townleaned Falcon, and moved on. It felt a bit too linear and consistent.
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:28 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:07 pm Uh oh, Kate might be Maf
No. I'm playing exactly like I did last game, just not looking at you...yet
I don't think she played exactly like that other game. The town explanation is that she could be unaware of how differently her play vibed. There's also a plausible wolf explanation, that she's *trying* to play exactly like last game and so feels confident in saying she did. I have a mild ping that this is Kate's defense instead of something along the lines of saying it's her town game whether or not it's the same as last game.

@falcon45ca what's your current read on Kate and how confident are you in that read?
This is a take.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:57 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:10 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:27 pm My eyes are on Scotty after that EOD and Seanzie since he turned into the Creature CW.

What do you infer from my loosey goosey end of day?
I have absolutely no idea. My initial thought during EOD was maybe you were partners with Creature but clearly that wasn't it.

more on these quotes
(because what's the use of quotes without lemon's fun commentary?)

quote #1 shows, in contrast to Scotty's townread on Porscha (lol sorry for the side dig/shade, Scotty), PSV didn't townread Porscha and doesn't really have much motive to kill there (disregarding other factors like having scumbuddies)

quote #2 PSV weak townlean on Creature and questioning the vote on them (and as we know, Creature flipped town)
don't remember if PSV was on Creature at EOD let me check quickly...nope, they were on Scotty with me!

quote #3 just a mindmeld probs

quote #4 the partnering Scotty with Creature is imo hard to make up from a scum perspective, especially since it's been disproven with Creature's flip
and this makes me think it's a genuine thought that PSV had

sometimes I think I'm just a contrarian and like to go against consensus

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:46 pm @Scotty
@Lemonfairy
@Dennis
@falcon45ca
@Seanzie

What are you guys doing??

was finding towny PSV posts for fun

I kind of liked these posts from PSV (some more than others):

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:07 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 am Porscha town

That’s all I know in this crazy world
Why is Porscha town?

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm @Porscha what made you interested in Seanzie?
I hesitate to go Creature because even this is more active than he was in the one game I played with him frankly

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:52 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:45 pm I suspect Kate.
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:29 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:04 pm

Something someone once told me about how she approaches early game, I'm seeing it here.

Of course I could be wrong, but also [VOTE: kate] aubergine
Oh please elaborate, I'd love to hear this.

Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:50 pm I arrived late, I townleaned Dennis and then I talked about cannibalism lol

If you honestly think I'm bad, then you should and would stop being so cryptic. But I don't honestly think you think that. I actually think you wish I were bad.

But, alas, I am civ once again.
I interpret "wishing [Kate was] bad" as Kate thinking Falcon wants to catch her. If that's wrong let me know, but I think Kate is implying Falcon is town with this response. For most people, if someone is tunneling them it's natural to question the tunneler's alignment, but Kate said this, later townleaned Falcon, and moved on. It felt a bit too linear and consistent.
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:28 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:07 pm Uh oh, Kate might be Maf
No. I'm playing exactly like I did last game, just not looking at you...yet
I don't think she played exactly like that other game. The town explanation is that she could be unaware of how differently her play vibed. There's also a plausible wolf explanation, that she's *trying* to play exactly like last game and so feels confident in saying she did. I have a mild ping that this is Kate's defense instead of something along the lines of saying it's her town game whether or not it's the same as last game.

@falcon45ca what's your current read on Kate and how confident are you in that read?
This is a take.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:57 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:10 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:27 pm My eyes are on Scotty after that EOD and Seanzie since he turned into the Creature CW.

What do you infer from my loosey goosey end of day?
I have absolutely no idea. My initial thought during EOD was maybe you were partners with Creature but clearly that wasn't it.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:41 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:39 pm hmmm I not sold by these reasons but there's also the fact that Kate's found scum with reasons I wasn't sold by before
I'm also kind of sympathizing because it feels like I was in a similar position before so I kind of want to push against this wagon a little
This is so wishy washy, it makes me want to

[VOTE: lemon] aubergine

*squint*

but why is PSV a better wagon than say, genny?

hmmm I not sold by these reasons but there's also the fact that Kate's found scum with reasons I wasn't sold by before
I'm also kind of sympathizing because it feels like I was in a similar position before so I kind of want to push against this wagon a little

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:33 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:31 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:29 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:28 pm I don't really get the case on PSV (and lowkey want to vote Thunal for it)
Thunal isn't the one who made a case on me
is P#906 not a case?
ok, it's an ISO but they're pretty much the same thing

is there another case I missed?
Oh eh, I guess so. Thunal didn't start the fire at least

who was the one that started it?
iirc it was Kate?
because you were defending genny

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:29 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:28 pm I don't really get the case on PSV (and lowkey want to vote Thunal for it)
Thunal isn't the one who made a case on me

is P#906 not a case?
ok, it's an ISO but they're pretty much the same thing

is there another case I missed?

oh something something
if PSV is town, Dubz looks better from that defend

should probably take a look at pyxxy hmmm

I don't really get the case on PSV (and lowkey want to vote Thunal for it)

hmmm lemon is back

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:03 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:31 pm I'm so towny
are y'all seeing this?
I've just realized that I have cute aggression towards you

QAQ

nice crosspost

also
this isn't game-related but

pyxxy's first time meeting dubz:

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:53 pm [VOTE: demonfairy] aubergine

@Dubz nice to meet you. When you're playing scum, how do you typically get caught (if at all)? e.g. can people find you alone, do you get easily revealed by your teammates flipping, are you told that you have tells, etc.

pyxxy's first time meeting lemon:

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:50 pm Kill the fairy and awake from the dream
Kil the fairy and awwake from the dream
Kill the fairy nd awake fromm the Ddream
Kill the Fairy and awakee from tthe dream
Kill the faiiry and awake from teh dream
kill the fairy and awake from the dream
Kll the fairy anNd avvake from the dream
Kill the fairy and awake from the dream
Kiill the fairy nd awak from the dream
Kill the fairy and awake from the dddream
Killl the fairy anD Awake from the Dream
Kill thE fairy aand awake fro the dream
Kill the firy and awke from the dream
Kill the fairry and awake from thHe dream
KiLl the fairy andd aAwake from the dreEam

and I realize that's not much to scumread them for individually but it's there

and last thing was no one really talked about them

imo they would fit the criteria for your standard UTR slot in a scumteam

Dennis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:53 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:50 pm
Dubz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:47 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:38 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:21 pm Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm
Like, do y’all not see what I’m seeing with quin?

And if you think quin is good, why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen
here!
I didn't remember wrongly!
@Dubz this is what I'm referring to when I said it looked like Scotty knew moving around would make them look towny so it felt more like it was performative rather that indecisivess/waffling

the "why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen"
first part is fine, second part is LAMIST and imo shows a disproportionate degree of concern over being scumread (Scotty only had Quin and me voting them at the time and no one else really was scumreading them iirc)
@Dubz just read this part
Oh hmm okay, I didn't remember that post. My snap impression is that the second part does feel a bit pre-emptively defensive but otherwise Scotty has felt okay to me so I need to think on it.

Remind me who else you are eyeing right now?
Scotty/Seanize/Thunal/you

I don't have confidence that all are scum
and I don't think I have as strong reasons for Seanzie/Thunal/you
What is your reasoning for dubz (which I realize you just said is bad but)

first thing that caught my attention was the "first" post
which was my first post as scum in my last game (not a good reason but it caught my interest)

following that, I just kind of skimmed their ISO and didn't see many takes/reads + (iirc) they were also the first to vote Quin, who was the leading wagon at the time

PSV is probably fine?
I haven't gotten any pings there

blindspots/people I haven't really looked at/paid attention to are falcon, genny, pyxxy

maybe PSV

Dubz wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:47 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:38 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:21 pm Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm
Like, do y’all not see what I’m seeing with quin?

And if you think quin is good, why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen
here!
I didn't remember wrongly!
@Dubz this is what I'm referring to when I said it looked like Scotty knew moving around would make them look towny so it felt more like it was performative rather that indecisivess/waffling

the "why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen"
first part is fine, second part is LAMIST and imo shows a disproportionate degree of concern over being scumread (Scotty only had Quin and me voting them at the time and no one else really was scumreading them iirc)
@Dubz just read this part
Oh hmm okay, I didn't remember that post. My snap impression is that the second part does feel a bit pre-emptively defensive but otherwise Scotty has felt okay to me so I need to think on it.

Remind me who else you are eyeing right now?

Scotty/Seanize/Thunal/you

I don't have confidence that all are scum
and I don't think I have as strong reasons for Seanzie/Thunal/you

as you can see, I am just a silly lemon and definitely not evil or nefarious

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:41 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:33 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:32 pm
► Show Spoiler
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:21 pm post title: why the extremely towny and cute lemon scumreads Scotty the scummy (read accuracy not guaranteed)

started with this post:
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:11 am
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:02 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:57 pm
Sure:

Spoiler: show
REDACTED]
[REDACTED]
English I Honors
14 April 2023
Avoiding Responsibility for Your Actions
It happens more often than not for one to blame others if they only look on the surface. People would rather not be held accountable for their actions and instead point the finger at whoever seems the most obvious. However, one must look deeper and think critically to decide where to place blame. This is put on display in Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare. The tragedy of Romeo and Juliet often gets blamed on Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse because of their secrecy and handling of the situation. One could claim the friar or the nurse should have told the Lords of the plans or refused to help Romeo and Juliet outright. However, there were hidden risks and dangers to each option. Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse prove through the play that they are acting according to their judgment, not just whatever Romeo or Juliet demands, and are not responsible for the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet.
In the play, Friar Laurence gives Juliet a potion to make her appear dead for several days as a part of a plan to reunite her with her husband (Shakespeare 4.1.89-120). There are multiple seemingly risky and dangerous plans used by Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse, but there is always more to them than meets the eye. Friar Laurence’s poison plan, for example, was not on a whim. The friar is a master at herbology and knows many different uses for herbs. It would be irresponsible and deadly to attempt this plan without his knowledge. He is clearly putting thought, and his own skills, into aiding Juliet, while avoiding certain failure. But, this play would not be a tragedy if something didn’t go wrong. Friar Laurence’s message to Romeo in Mantua doesn’t get through, as all friars are being quarantined because of a breakout of the plague (5.2.10-11). It is unjust to blame Friar Laurence for this wicked twist of fate. Every part of his plan was crucial and meticulous--if everything went smoothly, it would have worked. A breakout of the plague could not have even been predicted by doctors during this time period, much less a friar. One cannot blame Friar Laurence for losing control of his plan. But the friar is not the only person who people claim should have taken a different course of action. At multiple points in the play, Juliet’s nurse has the opportunity to bring up Romeo and Juliet’s marriage to Lord and Lady Capulet, but she doesn’t. One might say she carries some blame for keeping it a secret. However, Lord Capulet displays very violent tendencies, especially regarding Juliet and her marriage, and Lady Capulet sides with him (3.5). The nurse cannot safely let anyone know about the marriage without putting her and Juliet’s safety at risk. She is forced into a very troubling situation where she doesn’t want to have to keep this secret but cannot. Both the nurse and Friar Laurence were trying to help, but one may argue they should not have even tolerated the relationship between the two.
Romeo and Juliet’s forbidden love is the driving factor of the play, forcing everyone involved to be secretive and hide things to avoid the Lords becoming furious. But would it have been a happier ending if the nurse or Friar Laurence had refused to help? Juliet was receiving constant pressure from her parents to marry Paris (1.3.60-66), but Juliet says she would rather “bid me go into a new-made grave” than marry him (4.1.84). The Nurse is aware of Juliet’s feelings, but she cannot take either side. On one side, she wants to side with Juliet. Juliet and her nurse have always been very close, and so it is natural that she wouldn’t want to see Juliet married miserably. On the other, this is a time period where it is considered proper for children, especially unmarried girls, to always respect and obey their parents. Zhao Ban, a philosopher and generally considered the first female Chinese historian wrote in her article “On Reverence for Parents” that “Girls not yet gone out from their homes / Must carefully reverence their parents” (1-2). It goes against the nurse’s core values to help Juliet disobey the Capulets. The nurse is trapped in a moral dilemma where she must make a decision or else Juliet would be trapped by her parents into an unhappy marriage, but must be careful with her actions or else she could get in serious trouble with the Capulet family. Friar Laurence plays a pivotal role in Romeo and Juliet’s blossoming relationship. He agrees to marry the two the same day he learns that Romeo has met Juliet and moved on from Rosaline. On the surface, this is a ridiculous idea. However, when one considers that Friar Laurence married them not to appease Romeo, but instead to resolve the conflict between the Capulets and Monagues, the situation gets complicated (Shakespeare 2.3.88-92). Friar Laurence refuses at first, saying Romeo is only attracted to Juliet’s body and is moving much too fast (2.3.65-80). Romeo proves himself to be very emotionally volatile, going from moping about Rosaline (1.1.222-230) to being enamored of Juliet in the same day. Friar Laurence could not have been able to accurately predict Romeo’s reaction. In addition, the marriage is not just because Friar Laurence doesn’t see harm in it--he advises Romeo to slow down and think. The reason he follows through is because of the constant fights breaking out between the Capulets and Montagues. He sees this as a way to “turn your households’ rancor to pure love” (2.3.92). If this marriage works, it will prove that the houses have no real reason to fight, and the citizens of Verona will not have to live in fear of fights breaking out. It’s even possible the Friar actually sees himself as the hero, putting an end to the violence. If he refused, he would both have to deal with whatever Romeo’s reaction was and potentially live with the guilt of every innocent person slain in the subsequent fights. The reaction of the two children is a major driving factor as well. Both Romeo and Juliet threaten to kill themselves at multiple points in the play. Romeo, when he learns he is banished from Verona (3.3.105-109) and Juliet claims she would if all other plans to reunite with Romeo failed (3.5.244). These two children, clearly emotionally unstable and a lot of stress, put the nurse and Friar Laurence in a very tough position. If at any point things did not work out for them, they would kill themselves and their blood would be on the hands of the adults. It was nearly impossible for the adults to simply do nothing. The consequences of the rash behavior of the children ended up being the nurse and Friar Laurence’s responsibility, and they acted the best they could in that terrible situation.
Romeo and Juliet are rash and irresponsible, forcing themselves into very adult situations and then begging for aid, so far as to threaten killing themselves if the adults don’t help. Friar Laurence and the nurse, being thrusted into this position, make attempts to rationalize with the children before they try their more unorthodox plans. The nurse at first goes along with what Juliet wishes, but after Romeo is banished, she thinks about what to do and suggests Juliet just marry Paris and forget about Romeo (3.5.216-226). The nurse believes that this has gone too far and that Juliet should just follow her parent’s advice. Despite her constant complaints, the chances that Juliet would fall in love with Paris in an arranged marriage are higher than they seemed. According to “Would You Marry a Stranger?” by Jessica McBirney, arranged marriages are not all terrible. In fact, there is data that “those in arranged marriages generally enjoy happier lives and lower divorce rates” (2). The whole situation caused more problems for everyone than it solved, and Juliet is arguably being selfish. By refusing to try and move on and shame everyone around her into helping her, she manipulates the situation into exactly what she wants, and refuses the nurse’s attempts to make her reconsider Paris, or even just move on from Romeo. Friar Laurence had the almost exact opposite problem with Romeo. The friar was disappointed to hear how quickly Romeo moved on from Rosaline and advises that Romeo think about his decision more (Shakespeare 2.3.74-78). Romeo characteristically refuses to reconsider and begs until Friar Laurence gives in. It’s almost as if he doesn’t want help, he just wants what will make him happiest and doesn’t consider the consequences of his actions or the advice the friar gives. While Friar Laurence stands stronger on his position than the nurse did, he eventually caves as well and marries Romeo and Juliet. This could be seen as the initial conflict that starts the path to the tragedy, but truly the blame lies in Romeo and Juliet manipulating the adults around them. They are irresponsible and manipulative, threatening to kill themselves and leave the guilt of their deaths in the hearts of the adults unless everything goes their way. It eventually becomes clear that the only people who can truly be blamed for the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet is Romeo and Juliet themselves.
Juliet’s nurse and Friar Laurence tried their best, in a situation where they were being manipulated and had to be very careful with their actions, to aid Romeo and Juliet. The scholars that argue Friar Laurence and the nurse are responsible must reconsider and recognize the emotional struggle Romeo and Juliet put on them. It is important to think critically, from an unbiased perspective about situations before one places blame. We have all been in arguments or situations where taking the blame is unfavorable and attempt to place the blame on someone else. It’s hard to reconcile with guilt, and it’s okay to feel these things. But when someone else takes the fall for one, one carries the same, if not more responsibility than before.
Works Cited
“On Reverence for Parents”, Zhao Ban, c, 4.-120. Commonlit.
Shakespeare, William. Romeo and Juliet. Literatur, Grade 9, edited by Janet Allen, McDougal Littell, 2008, 940-1050.

This essay obviously has nothing to do with me and it's kind of unnerving you don't want to give a serious answer, especially because you just pushed me to top wagon
That’s fair. There’s no substance behind my vote.

I think I’ll feel bad if you were an actual wagon for no reason; as it stands with 2 votes, you’re more like a tricycle on a gentle slope
which I found a bit placating (mostly for the second part, which imo doesn't really need to be there)
but I didn't stare at it too much because it's fair to say Scotty's Dennis vote was just an unsubstantiated vote and although the second part might not be what I would say, maybe it's normal for Scotty

added this post in hindsight after Porscha kill:
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 am Porscha town

That’s all I know in this crazy world
this is the point where Scotty shifts from voting Quin to trying to get people off:
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:30 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:29 pm [VOTE: scotty] aubergine
Towny vote

He has no impetus to start a wagon on me as wolf imo

Don’t lynch quin
and it's fine
(aside from the basic "not wanting to end up on the wagon that flips" thing which is imo too vague to bring up as a reason but I'm putting it here anyway)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine
idk this was kind of weird

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm My vote is fluid. Where should I go fam
probably not wanting to stay on Dennis
only problem with this is how Scotty is talking to thread so it reads as a bit performative to me (ik I'm being a bit picky with this)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm My vote is fluid. Where should I go fam
Creature or genny?
Honoring quin and not going creature

[VOTE: genny] aubergine
this pinged me so hard lol
didn't feel the need to point it out at the time because Quin already did

it's mostly the "honoring quin" part, which reads to me like Scotty thinks Quin flipping is already set and has TMI that Quin will flip town
and it brought back my initial "hmm" at Scotty moving off Quin, which I ignored the first time (because it wasn't concerning by itself but it now becomes a concern with this post)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:38 pm Like my d1 reads are generally Jackson Pollack paintings. But I feel confident Quin is town. Let’s get off him
the confidence level doesn't feel real
Aro reminded me to be careful not to over-project confidence when it would be weird for town to be that confident in my recent scumgame and now I'm using it to hunt

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:42 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:41 pm [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine
Unlike quin, I think this vote sucks
this was just uncalled for smh
(it's not a reason, I just felt a bit attacked by this)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm Like, do y’all not see what I’m seeing with quin?

And if you think quin is good, why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen
here!
I didn't remember wrongly!
@Dubz this is what I'm referring to when I said it looked like Scotty knew moving around would make them look towny so it felt more like it was performative rather that indecisivess/waffling

the "why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen"
first part is fine, second part is LAMIST and imo shows a disproportionate degree of concern over being scumread (Scotty only had Quin and me voting them at the time and no one else really was scumreading them iirc)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:45 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:40 pm
Why do you suspect me?
buddying/distancing with dennis, but most recently i think your reaction to my most recent posts have been inauthentic.
oh, I thought that was obvious. You are the leading wagon and your random vote for me DOESNT come from wolf imo.

Ergo, im following you

Also haven’t caught up
yeah again, just the confidence level doesn't really match up to this reason, which imo is kind of lacking in comparison

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:46 pm Thunal tying it up for creature/genny, eh?

Just noting
not relevant to this post
but noted for whatever Thunal flips in the future

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:47 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:46 pm what if
someone else votes Scotty and then we let it rand
That’s…

Actually a terrible idea

Like, how does that help a solve?

Either vote me in confidence or get the hell off me
this is another post that I think shows almost too much concern over getting scumread/voted

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:49 pm Currently letting it rand on genny/creature also isn’t ideal.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:51 pm Guys genny only has 4 posts?

Really, are we doing this? That seems lame

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine
not wanting a rand on genny/creature
then saying genny vote is lame but not voting creature (bringing up not wanting to be on the wagon that flips again)

kate vote is just weird either way

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm No, I want Seanzie around too

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm For personal reasons
hmmm
(just another "wait and see" post)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:55 pm [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:55 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:54 pm [VOTE: creature] aubergineI'm moving to creature
oh shoot

I don’t like this
tbf, this kind of aligns with previous vote on kate

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:56 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine
no idea what is happening atp

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:58 pm [VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:59 pm Seanzie could be a hit
Scotty/Seanzie if that's a thing

ok I'm done
Scotty's trying to get people off? Happy June
wdym
can you be less crytic?
It was your wording lol, you mentioned Scotty shifting his focus to getting people off. I'm just making a joke.

oh
ohhh

omg ignore me :x

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:21 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm Like, do y’all not see what I’m seeing with quin?

And if you think quin is good, why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen
here!
I didn't remember wrongly!
@Dubz this is what I'm referring to when I said it looked like Scotty knew moving around would make them look towny so it felt more like it was performative rather that indecisivess/waffling

the "why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen"
first part is fine, second part is LAMIST and imo shows a disproportionate degree of concern over being scumread (Scotty only had Quin and me voting them at the time and no one else really was scumreading them iirc)

oops formatting got messed up

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:21 pm Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm
Like, do y’all not see what I’m seeing with quin?

And if you think quin is good, why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen
here!
I didn't remember wrongly!
@Dubz this is what I'm referring to when I said it looked like Scotty knew moving around would make them look towny so it felt more like it was performative rather that indecisivess/waffling

the "why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen"
first part is fine, second part is LAMIST and imo shows a disproportionate degree of concern over being scumread (Scotty only had Quin and me voting them at the time and no one else really was scumreading them iirc)

@Dubz just read this part

5 votes on lemon: Zenon, Scotty, Seanzie, Dubz, pyxxy
2 votes on genny: Kate, falcon45ca
1 vote on pyxxy: potentialsheltervet
1 vote on scotty: Lemonfairy
1 vote on thunal: Dennis

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:32 pm
► Show Spoiler
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:21 pm post title: why the extremely towny and cute lemon scumreads Scotty the scummy (read accuracy not guaranteed)

started with this post:
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:11 am
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:02 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:57 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:54 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:49 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine

Because I just became privvy to the implication of his name spelled backwards

Seems Ytliug
Certified yttocS moment

So can you give me a bit more than that
Sure:

Spoiler: show
REDACTED]
[REDACTED]
English I Honors
14 April 2023
Avoiding Responsibility for Your Actions
It happens more often than not for one to blame others if they only look on the surface. People would rather not be held accountable for their actions and instead point the finger at whoever seems the most obvious. However, one must look deeper and think critically to decide where to place blame. This is put on display in Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare. The tragedy of Romeo and Juliet often gets blamed on Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse because of their secrecy and handling of the situation. One could claim the friar or the nurse should have told the Lords of the plans or refused to help Romeo and Juliet outright. However, there were hidden risks and dangers to each option. Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse prove through the play that they are acting according to their judgment, not just whatever Romeo or Juliet demands, and are not responsible for the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet.
In the play, Friar Laurence gives Juliet a potion to make her appear dead for several days as a part of a plan to reunite her with her husband (Shakespeare 4.1.89-120). There are multiple seemingly risky and dangerous plans used by Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse, but there is always more to them than meets the eye. Friar Laurence’s poison plan, for example, was not on a whim. The friar is a master at herbology and knows many different uses for herbs. It would be irresponsible and deadly to attempt this plan without his knowledge. He is clearly putting thought, and his own skills, into aiding Juliet, while avoiding certain failure. But, this play would not be a tragedy if something didn’t go wrong. Friar Laurence’s message to Romeo in Mantua doesn’t get through, as all friars are being quarantined because of a breakout of the plague (5.2.10-11). It is unjust to blame Friar Laurence for this wicked twist of fate. Every part of his plan was crucial and meticulous--if everything went smoothly, it would have worked. A breakout of the plague could not have even been predicted by doctors during this time period, much less a friar. One cannot blame Friar Laurence for losing control of his plan. But the friar is not the only person who people claim should have taken a different course of action. At multiple points in the play, Juliet’s nurse has the opportunity to bring up Romeo and Juliet’s marriage to Lord and Lady Capulet, but she doesn’t. One might say she carries some blame for keeping it a secret. However, Lord Capulet displays very violent tendencies, especially regarding Juliet and her marriage, and Lady Capulet sides with him (3.5). The nurse cannot safely let anyone know about the marriage without putting her and Juliet’s safety at risk. She is forced into a very troubling situation where she doesn’t want to have to keep this secret but cannot. Both the nurse and Friar Laurence were trying to help, but one may argue they should not have even tolerated the relationship between the two.
Romeo and Juliet’s forbidden love is the driving factor of the play, forcing everyone involved to be secretive and hide things to avoid the Lords becoming furious. But would it have been a happier ending if the nurse or Friar Laurence had refused to help? Juliet was receiving constant pressure from her parents to marry Paris (1.3.60-66), but Juliet says she would rather “bid me go into a new-made grave” than marry him (4.1.84). The Nurse is aware of Juliet’s feelings, but she cannot take either side. On one side, she wants to side with Juliet. Juliet and her nurse have always been very close, and so it is natural that she wouldn’t want to see Juliet married miserably. On the other, this is a time period where it is considered proper for children, especially unmarried girls, to always respect and obey their parents. Zhao Ban, a philosopher and generally considered the first female Chinese historian wrote in her article “On Reverence for Parents” that “Girls not yet gone out from their homes / Must carefully reverence their parents” (1-2). It goes against the nurse’s core values to help Juliet disobey the Capulets. The nurse is trapped in a moral dilemma where she must make a decision or else Juliet would be trapped by her parents into an unhappy marriage, but must be careful with her actions or else she could get in serious trouble with the Capulet family. Friar Laurence plays a pivotal role in Romeo and Juliet’s blossoming relationship. He agrees to marry the two the same day he learns that Romeo has met Juliet and moved on from Rosaline. On the surface, this is a ridiculous idea. However, when one considers that Friar Laurence married them not to appease Romeo, but instead to resolve the conflict between the Capulets and Monagues, the situation gets complicated (Shakespeare 2.3.88-92). Friar Laurence refuses at first, saying Romeo is only attracted to Juliet’s body and is moving much too fast (2.3.65-80). Romeo proves himself to be very emotionally volatile, going from moping about Rosaline (1.1.222-230) to being enamored of Juliet in the same day. Friar Laurence could not have been able to accurately predict Romeo’s reaction. In addition, the marriage is not just because Friar Laurence doesn’t see harm in it--he advises Romeo to slow down and think. The reason he follows through is because of the constant fights breaking out between the Capulets and Montagues. He sees this as a way to “turn your households’ rancor to pure love” (2.3.92). If this marriage works, it will prove that the houses have no real reason to fight, and the citizens of Verona will not have to live in fear of fights breaking out. It’s even possible the Friar actually sees himself as the hero, putting an end to the violence. If he refused, he would both have to deal with whatever Romeo’s reaction was and potentially live with the guilt of every innocent person slain in the subsequent fights. The reaction of the two children is a major driving factor as well. Both Romeo and Juliet threaten to kill themselves at multiple points in the play. Romeo, when he learns he is banished from Verona (3.3.105-109) and Juliet claims she would if all other plans to reunite with Romeo failed (3.5.244). These two children, clearly emotionally unstable and a lot of stress, put the nurse and Friar Laurence in a very tough position. If at any point things did not work out for them, they would kill themselves and their blood would be on the hands of the adults. It was nearly impossible for the adults to simply do nothing. The consequences of the rash behavior of the children ended up being the nurse and Friar Laurence’s responsibility, and they acted the best they could in that terrible situation.
Romeo and Juliet are rash and irresponsible, forcing themselves into very adult situations and then begging for aid, so far as to threaten killing themselves if the adults don’t help. Friar Laurence and the nurse, being thrusted into this position, make attempts to rationalize with the children before they try their more unorthodox plans. The nurse at first goes along with what Juliet wishes, but after Romeo is banished, she thinks about what to do and suggests Juliet just marry Paris and forget about Romeo (3.5.216-226). The nurse believes that this has gone too far and that Juliet should just follow her parent’s advice. Despite her constant complaints, the chances that Juliet would fall in love with Paris in an arranged marriage are higher than they seemed. According to “Would You Marry a Stranger?” by Jessica McBirney, arranged marriages are not all terrible. In fact, there is data that “those in arranged marriages generally enjoy happier lives and lower divorce rates” (2). The whole situation caused more problems for everyone than it solved, and Juliet is arguably being selfish. By refusing to try and move on and shame everyone around her into helping her, she manipulates the situation into exactly what she wants, and refuses the nurse’s attempts to make her reconsider Paris, or even just move on from Romeo. Friar Laurence had the almost exact opposite problem with Romeo. The friar was disappointed to hear how quickly Romeo moved on from Rosaline and advises that Romeo think about his decision more (Shakespeare 2.3.74-78). Romeo characteristically refuses to reconsider and begs until Friar Laurence gives in. It’s almost as if he doesn’t want help, he just wants what will make him happiest and doesn’t consider the consequences of his actions or the advice the friar gives. While Friar Laurence stands stronger on his position than the nurse did, he eventually caves as well and marries Romeo and Juliet. This could be seen as the initial conflict that starts the path to the tragedy, but truly the blame lies in Romeo and Juliet manipulating the adults around them. They are irresponsible and manipulative, threatening to kill themselves and leave the guilt of their deaths in the hearts of the adults unless everything goes their way. It eventually becomes clear that the only people who can truly be blamed for the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet is Romeo and Juliet themselves.
Juliet’s nurse and Friar Laurence tried their best, in a situation where they were being manipulated and had to be very careful with their actions, to aid Romeo and Juliet. The scholars that argue Friar Laurence and the nurse are responsible must reconsider and recognize the emotional struggle Romeo and Juliet put on them. It is important to think critically, from an unbiased perspective about situations before one places blame. We have all been in arguments or situations where taking the blame is unfavorable and attempt to place the blame on someone else. It’s hard to reconcile with guilt, and it’s okay to feel these things. But when someone else takes the fall for one, one carries the same, if not more responsibility than before.
Works Cited
“On Reverence for Parents”, Zhao Ban, c, 4.-120. Commonlit.
Shakespeare, William. Romeo and Juliet. Literatur, Grade 9, edited by Janet Allen, McDougal Littell, 2008, 940-1050.

This essay obviously has nothing to do with me and it's kind of unnerving you don't want to give a serious answer, especially because you just pushed me to top wagon
That’s fair. There’s no substance behind my vote.

I think I’ll feel bad if you were an actual wagon for no reason; as it stands with 2 votes, you’re more like a tricycle on a gentle slope
which I found a bit placating (mostly for the second part, which imo doesn't really need to be there)
but I didn't stare at it too much because it's fair to say Scotty's Dennis vote was just an unsubstantiated vote and although the second part might not be what I would say, maybe it's normal for Scotty

added this post in hindsight after Porscha kill:
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 am Porscha town

That’s all I know in this crazy world
this is the point where Scotty shifts from voting Quin to trying to get people off:
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:30 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:29 pm [VOTE: scotty] aubergine
Towny vote

He has no impetus to start a wagon on me as wolf imo

Don’t lynch quin
and it's fine
(aside from the basic "not wanting to end up on the wagon that flips" thing which is imo too vague to bring up as a reason but I'm putting it here anyway)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine
idk this was kind of weird

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm My vote is fluid. Where should I go fam
probably not wanting to stay on Dennis
only problem with this is how Scotty is talking to thread so it reads as a bit performative to me (ik I'm being a bit picky with this)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm My vote is fluid. Where should I go fam
Creature or genny?
Honoring quin and not going creature

[VOTE: genny] aubergine
this pinged me so hard lol
didn't feel the need to point it out at the time because Quin already did

it's mostly the "honoring quin" part, which reads to me like Scotty thinks Quin flipping is already set and has TMI that Quin will flip town
and it brought back my initial "hmm" at Scotty moving off Quin, which I ignored the first time (because it wasn't concerning by itself but it now becomes a concern with this post)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:38 pm Like my d1 reads are generally Jackson Pollack paintings. But I feel confident Quin is town. Let’s get off him
the confidence level doesn't feel real
Aro reminded me to be careful not to over-project confidence when it would be weird for town to be that confident in my recent scumgame and now I'm using it to hunt

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:42 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:41 pm [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine
Unlike quin, I think this vote sucks
this was just uncalled for smh
(it's not a reason, I just felt a bit attacked by this)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm Like, do y’all not see what I’m seeing with quin?

And if you think quin is good, why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen
here!
I didn't remember wrongly!
@Dubz this is what I'm referring to when I said it looked like Scotty knew moving around would make them look towny so it felt more like it was performative rather that indecisivess/waffling

the "why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen"
first part is fine, second part is LAMIST and imo shows a disproportionate degree of concern over being scumread (Scotty only had Quin and me voting them at the time and no one else really was scumreading them iirc)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:45 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:40 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:38 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Honoring quin and not going creature

[VOTE: genny] aubergine
why are you honoring me specifically? i'm no less likely to self-pres if you 'honored' someone elses suspects.
Why do you suspect me?
buddying/distancing with dennis, but most recently i think your reaction to my most recent posts have been inauthentic.
oh, I thought that was obvious. You are the leading wagon and your random vote for me DOESNT come from wolf imo.

Ergo, im following you

Also haven’t caught up
yeah again, just the confidence level doesn't really match up to this reason, which imo is kind of lacking in comparison

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:46 pm Thunal tying it up for creature/genny, eh?

Just noting
not relevant to this post
but noted for whatever Thunal flips in the future

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:47 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:46 pm what if
someone else votes Scotty and then we let it rand
That’s…

Actually a terrible idea

Like, how does that help a solve?

Either vote me in confidence or get the hell off me
this is another post that I think shows almost too much concern over getting scumread/voted

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:49 pm Currently letting it rand on genny/creature also isn’t ideal.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:51 pm Guys genny only has 4 posts?

Really, are we doing this? That seems lame

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine
not wanting a rand on genny/creature
then saying genny vote is lame but not voting creature (bringing up not wanting to be on the wagon that flips again)

kate vote is just weird either way

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm No, I want Seanzie around too

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm For personal reasons
hmmm
(just another "wait and see" post)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:55 pm [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:55 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:54 pm [VOTE: creature] aubergineI'm moving to creature
oh shoot

I don’t like this
tbf, this kind of aligns with previous vote on kate

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:56 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine
no idea what is happening atp

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:58 pm [VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:59 pm Seanzie could be a hit
Scotty/Seanzie if that's a thing

ok I'm done
Scotty's trying to get people off? Happy June

wdym
can you be less crytic?

I'm so towny
are y'all seeing this?

I'm a bit worried I'm conf-biasing a little so a second (or more) pair of eyes would help

(but I've just reminded myself why I scumread Scotty again and would prefer Scotty now)

Kate wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:43 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:03 pm guess this is another game where lemon gets misexed earlygame for having spicy reads that other people don't agree with and no one cares enough to think twice
I'm not voting you. I'd prefer to vote genny, thwn reassess.

ok and this reminds me
you did bring up me saying I could go for genny but not scumreading them

that's because I don't have a read on genny but I saw you on them and was considering sheeping you

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:18 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:53 pm [VOTE: demonfairy] aubergine

@Dubz nice to meet you. When you're playing scum, how do you typically get caught (if at all)? e.g. can people find you alone, do you get easily revealed by your teammates flipping, are you told that you have tells, etc.
Demonfairy

>:c

post title: why the extremely towny and cute lemon scumreads Scotty the scummy (read accuracy not guaranteed)

started with this post:

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:11 am
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:02 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:57 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:54 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:49 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine

Because I just became privvy to the implication of his name spelled backwards

Seems Ytliug
Certified yttocS moment

So can you give me a bit more than that
Sure:

Spoiler: show
REDACTED]
[REDACTED]
English I Honors
14 April 2023
Avoiding Responsibility for Your Actions
It happens more often than not for one to blame others if they only look on the surface. People would rather not be held accountable for their actions and instead point the finger at whoever seems the most obvious. However, one must look deeper and think critically to decide where to place blame. This is put on display in Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare. The tragedy of Romeo and Juliet often gets blamed on Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse because of their secrecy and handling of the situation. One could claim the friar or the nurse should have told the Lords of the plans or refused to help Romeo and Juliet outright. However, there were hidden risks and dangers to each option. Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse prove through the play that they are acting according to their judgment, not just whatever Romeo or Juliet demands, and are not responsible for the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet.
In the play, Friar Laurence gives Juliet a potion to make her appear dead for several days as a part of a plan to reunite her with her husband (Shakespeare 4.1.89-120). There are multiple seemingly risky and dangerous plans used by Friar Laurence and Juliet’s nurse, but there is always more to them than meets the eye. Friar Laurence’s poison plan, for example, was not on a whim. The friar is a master at herbology and knows many different uses for herbs. It would be irresponsible and deadly to attempt this plan without his knowledge. He is clearly putting thought, and his own skills, into aiding Juliet, while avoiding certain failure. But, this play would not be a tragedy if something didn’t go wrong. Friar Laurence’s message to Romeo in Mantua doesn’t get through, as all friars are being quarantined because of a breakout of the plague (5.2.10-11). It is unjust to blame Friar Laurence for this wicked twist of fate. Every part of his plan was crucial and meticulous--if everything went smoothly, it would have worked. A breakout of the plague could not have even been predicted by doctors during this time period, much less a friar. One cannot blame Friar Laurence for losing control of his plan. But the friar is not the only person who people claim should have taken a different course of action. At multiple points in the play, Juliet’s nurse has the opportunity to bring up Romeo and Juliet’s marriage to Lord and Lady Capulet, but she doesn’t. One might say she carries some blame for keeping it a secret. However, Lord Capulet displays very violent tendencies, especially regarding Juliet and her marriage, and Lady Capulet sides with him (3.5). The nurse cannot safely let anyone know about the marriage without putting her and Juliet’s safety at risk. She is forced into a very troubling situation where she doesn’t want to have to keep this secret but cannot. Both the nurse and Friar Laurence were trying to help, but one may argue they should not have even tolerated the relationship between the two.
Romeo and Juliet’s forbidden love is the driving factor of the play, forcing everyone involved to be secretive and hide things to avoid the Lords becoming furious. But would it have been a happier ending if the nurse or Friar Laurence had refused to help? Juliet was receiving constant pressure from her parents to marry Paris (1.3.60-66), but Juliet says she would rather “bid me go into a new-made grave” than marry him (4.1.84). The Nurse is aware of Juliet’s feelings, but she cannot take either side. On one side, she wants to side with Juliet. Juliet and her nurse have always been very close, and so it is natural that she wouldn’t want to see Juliet married miserably. On the other, this is a time period where it is considered proper for children, especially unmarried girls, to always respect and obey their parents. Zhao Ban, a philosopher and generally considered the first female Chinese historian wrote in her article “On Reverence for Parents” that “Girls not yet gone out from their homes / Must carefully reverence their parents” (1-2). It goes against the nurse’s core values to help Juliet disobey the Capulets. The nurse is trapped in a moral dilemma where she must make a decision or else Juliet would be trapped by her parents into an unhappy marriage, but must be careful with her actions or else she could get in serious trouble with the Capulet family. Friar Laurence plays a pivotal role in Romeo and Juliet’s blossoming relationship. He agrees to marry the two the same day he learns that Romeo has met Juliet and moved on from Rosaline. On the surface, this is a ridiculous idea. However, when one considers that Friar Laurence married them not to appease Romeo, but instead to resolve the conflict between the Capulets and Monagues, the situation gets complicated (Shakespeare 2.3.88-92). Friar Laurence refuses at first, saying Romeo is only attracted to Juliet’s body and is moving much too fast (2.3.65-80). Romeo proves himself to be very emotionally volatile, going from moping about Rosaline (1.1.222-230) to being enamored of Juliet in the same day. Friar Laurence could not have been able to accurately predict Romeo’s reaction. In addition, the marriage is not just because Friar Laurence doesn’t see harm in it--he advises Romeo to slow down and think. The reason he follows through is because of the constant fights breaking out between the Capulets and Montagues. He sees this as a way to “turn your households’ rancor to pure love” (2.3.92). If this marriage works, it will prove that the houses have no real reason to fight, and the citizens of Verona will not have to live in fear of fights breaking out. It’s even possible the Friar actually sees himself as the hero, putting an end to the violence. If he refused, he would both have to deal with whatever Romeo’s reaction was and potentially live with the guilt of every innocent person slain in the subsequent fights. The reaction of the two children is a major driving factor as well. Both Romeo and Juliet threaten to kill themselves at multiple points in the play. Romeo, when he learns he is banished from Verona (3.3.105-109) and Juliet claims she would if all other plans to reunite with Romeo failed (3.5.244). These two children, clearly emotionally unstable and a lot of stress, put the nurse and Friar Laurence in a very tough position. If at any point things did not work out for them, they would kill themselves and their blood would be on the hands of the adults. It was nearly impossible for the adults to simply do nothing. The consequences of the rash behavior of the children ended up being the nurse and Friar Laurence’s responsibility, and they acted the best they could in that terrible situation.
Romeo and Juliet are rash and irresponsible, forcing themselves into very adult situations and then begging for aid, so far as to threaten killing themselves if the adults don’t help. Friar Laurence and the nurse, being thrusted into this position, make attempts to rationalize with the children before they try their more unorthodox plans. The nurse at first goes along with what Juliet wishes, but after Romeo is banished, she thinks about what to do and suggests Juliet just marry Paris and forget about Romeo (3.5.216-226). The nurse believes that this has gone too far and that Juliet should just follow her parent’s advice. Despite her constant complaints, the chances that Juliet would fall in love with Paris in an arranged marriage are higher than they seemed. According to “Would You Marry a Stranger?” by Jessica McBirney, arranged marriages are not all terrible. In fact, there is data that “those in arranged marriages generally enjoy happier lives and lower divorce rates” (2). The whole situation caused more problems for everyone than it solved, and Juliet is arguably being selfish. By refusing to try and move on and shame everyone around her into helping her, she manipulates the situation into exactly what she wants, and refuses the nurse’s attempts to make her reconsider Paris, or even just move on from Romeo. Friar Laurence had the almost exact opposite problem with Romeo. The friar was disappointed to hear how quickly Romeo moved on from Rosaline and advises that Romeo think about his decision more (Shakespeare 2.3.74-78). Romeo characteristically refuses to reconsider and begs until Friar Laurence gives in. It’s almost as if he doesn’t want help, he just wants what will make him happiest and doesn’t consider the consequences of his actions or the advice the friar gives. While Friar Laurence stands stronger on his position than the nurse did, he eventually caves as well and marries Romeo and Juliet. This could be seen as the initial conflict that starts the path to the tragedy, but truly the blame lies in Romeo and Juliet manipulating the adults around them. They are irresponsible and manipulative, threatening to kill themselves and leave the guilt of their deaths in the hearts of the adults unless everything goes their way. It eventually becomes clear that the only people who can truly be blamed for the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet is Romeo and Juliet themselves.
Juliet’s nurse and Friar Laurence tried their best, in a situation where they were being manipulated and had to be very careful with their actions, to aid Romeo and Juliet. The scholars that argue Friar Laurence and the nurse are responsible must reconsider and recognize the emotional struggle Romeo and Juliet put on them. It is important to think critically, from an unbiased perspective about situations before one places blame. We have all been in arguments or situations where taking the blame is unfavorable and attempt to place the blame on someone else. It’s hard to reconcile with guilt, and it’s okay to feel these things. But when someone else takes the fall for one, one carries the same, if not more responsibility than before.
Works Cited
“On Reverence for Parents”, Zhao Ban, c, 4.-120. Commonlit.
Shakespeare, William. Romeo and Juliet. Literatur, Grade 9, edited by Janet Allen, McDougal Littell, 2008, 940-1050.

This essay obviously has nothing to do with me and it's kind of unnerving you don't want to give a serious answer, especially because you just pushed me to top wagon
That’s fair. There’s no substance behind my vote.

I think I’ll feel bad if you were an actual wagon for no reason; as it stands with 2 votes, you’re more like a tricycle on a gentle slope

which I found a bit placating (mostly for the second part, which imo doesn't really need to be there)
but I didn't stare at it too much because it's fair to say Scotty's Dennis vote was just an unsubstantiated vote and although the second part might not be what I would say, maybe it's normal for Scotty

added this post in hindsight after Porscha kill:

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 am Porscha town

That’s all I know in this crazy world

this is the point where Scotty shifts from voting Quin to trying to get people off:

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:30 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:29 pm [VOTE: scotty] aubergine
Towny vote

He has no impetus to start a wagon on me as wolf imo

Don’t lynch quin

and it's fine
(aside from the basic "not wanting to end up on the wagon that flips" thing which is imo too vague to bring up as a reason but I'm putting it here anyway)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine

idk this was kind of weird

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm My vote is fluid. Where should I go fam

probably not wanting to stay on Dennis
only problem with this is how Scotty is talking to thread so it reads as a bit performative to me (ik I'm being a bit picky with this)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm My vote is fluid. Where should I go fam
Creature or genny?
Honoring quin and not going creature

[VOTE: genny] aubergine

this pinged me so hard lol
didn't feel the need to point it out at the time because Quin already did

it's mostly the "honoring quin" part, which reads to me like Scotty thinks Quin flipping is already set and has TMI that Quin will flip town
and it brought back my initial "hmm" at Scotty moving off Quin, which I ignored the first time (because it wasn't concerning by itself but it now becomes a concern with this post)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:38 pm Like my d1 reads are generally Jackson Pollack paintings. But I feel confident Quin is town. Let’s get off him

the confidence level doesn't feel real
Aro reminded me to be careful not to over-project confidence when it would be weird for town to be that confident in my recent scumgame and now I'm using it to hunt

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:42 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:41 pm [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine
Unlike quin, I think this vote sucks

this was just uncalled for smh
(it's not a reason, I just felt a bit attacked by this)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm Like, do y’all not see what I’m seeing with quin?

And if you think quin is good, why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen

here!
I didn't remember wrongly!
@Dubz this is what I'm referring to when I said it looked like Scotty knew moving around would make them look towny so it felt more like it was performative rather that indecisivess/waffling

the "why am I as wolf trying to pull off him? TMI? I just sit back and let it happen"
first part is fine, second part is LAMIST and imo shows a disproportionate degree of concern over being scumread (Scotty only had Quin and me voting them at the time and no one else really was scumreading them iirc)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:45 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:43 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:40 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:38 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:35 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm My vote is fluid. Where should I go fam
Creature or genny?
Honoring quin and not going creature

[VOTE: genny] aubergine
why are you honoring me specifically? i'm no less likely to self-pres if you 'honored' someone elses suspects.
Why do you suspect me?
buddying/distancing with dennis, but most recently i think your reaction to my most recent posts have been inauthentic.
oh, I thought that was obvious. You are the leading wagon and your random vote for me DOESNT come from wolf imo.

Ergo, im following you

Also haven’t caught up

yeah again, just the confidence level doesn't really match up to this reason, which imo is kind of lacking in comparison

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:46 pm Thunal tying it up for creature/genny, eh?

Just noting

not relevant to this post
but noted for whatever Thunal flips in the future

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:47 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:46 pm what if
someone else votes Scotty and then we let it rand
That’s…

Actually a terrible idea

Like, how does that help a solve?

Either vote me in confidence or get the hell off me

this is another post that I think shows almost too much concern over getting scumread/voted

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:49 pm Currently letting it rand on genny/creature also isn’t ideal.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:51 pm Guys genny only has 4 posts?

Really, are we doing this? That seems lame

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

not wanting a rand on genny/creature
then saying genny vote is lame but not voting creature (bringing up not wanting to be on the wagon that flips again)

kate vote is just weird either way

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm No, I want Seanzie around too

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:52 pm For personal reasons

hmmm
(just another "wait and see" post)

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:55 pm [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:55 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:54 pm [VOTE: creature] aubergineI'm moving to creature
oh shoot

I don’t like this

tbf, this kind of aligns with previous vote on kate

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:56 pm [VOTE: Dennis] aubergine

no idea what is happening atp

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:58 pm [VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:59 pm Seanzie could be a hit

Scotty/Seanzie if that's a thing

ok I'm done

actually, I'll go do it now
might as well

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:12 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:06 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:55 pm
Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:54 pm [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

I'm still here probs
wouldn't mind Genny/Thunal
Got more of a reason this time?
if it's anything, I'd say it's your EOD
the flippity-floppity all over the place thing

it felt off
I can see it more from scum trying to look towny by flip-flopping (because they know it's a weird thing for scum to do) more than I can see it as you genuinely being waffly
That’s some WIFOM type stuff. Me trying to be pretend to be chaotic for the sake of not appearing town thereby appearing town

I can bring up some specific quotes later
too lazy to rn

lowkey might take a break from mafia after this

(not ATE, just kind of thinking about life and if a break would magically recharge me with towny sparkles again)

guess this is another game where lemon gets misexed earlygame for having spicy reads that other people don't agree with and no one cares enough to think twice

btw I donated my art to the museum because I love mountainous

jk
I had no idea what role to pick because I'm bad at decisions so I donated it for the greater good

lemon climbing up from a low poster to a mid poster within hours

wow
nice job lemon

Search found 82 matches