The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:56 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:35 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:14 pm @NateTheLesser I still owe Creature a full reassessment, but my initial perception on Day 3 is that a Seanzie kill may point to a town Creature. Seanzie protected him pretty staunchly, while people like myself and a few others that have been anti-Creature much of the game are still here. I wonder if that represents an invitation for us to kill him without the same resistance.

I think it's more likely that the NK will aimed at direct threats, rather than removing protection for a mischop. Not that it couldn't serve both purposes.

But there's something more here. Sean arguably lead the chop on Wilgy by asking people to vote him. Why NK Sean when he was loudly wrong? Sean had several other suspicions, no tunnels.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:29 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:26 pm @EnderWiggin Why do you read Creature town? EoD 1, why, what happened? He's whining and doing absolutely nothing. Sometimes he's defaulting to voting me. He's complaining about Mac's list while still following it. He said I was mafia siding when I was voting Wilgy, while he himself considered Wilgy suspect and ended up voting there. Like wtf. It's useless at best and just wolf at worst. I have big questions about this. That said, I have scarier fish to fry tbh

The townread is based on the fact that I don't believe he cared about self-preservation during that EOD.

Which is not a sensation I feel associated with wolves much.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:48 pm Let's ISO Boquise

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

RondoDimBuckle wrote: The name "Nate the lesser" implies a greater nate out there. Are you afraid of him? @NateTheLesser

This post made me laugh tbh
You can have a town lean

Boquise wrote:

Seanzie wrote: I know it is only day 0 and I know I've not actually seen Jay as scum, but kinda okay calling Jay town right now and not worrying about it for at least like 20 minutes or so.

Gut reading this as town

Boquise wrote:

falcon45ca wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

falcon45ca wrote: JJJ and Sean doing a cute lil' dance around each other here.


69% chance one of em' is Maf

Please tell me more, falcon. Tell me everything.

OK, but it'll cost ya.

If you're good at something, never do it for free

You're quite more jokish than in your quali. Albeit i have only D1 so far tbh

Are you feeling more relaxed or something? Considering this isn't a high stakes game tbh

Boquise wrote:

lucy wrote: I thought we were just talking

I think I want to town read lucy

Boquise wrote:

RondoDimBuckle wrote:

lucy wrote: what did you think it was?

lucy wrote: I thought we were just talking

RondoDimBuckle wrote:

lucy wrote: check out Robert Eggars if you want very good films to make you feel very uncomfortable

trying to get in my pocket are you? Or is it put me in yours? I dont know all the lingo yet but Im watching you

I have had people who I got into a good talk about good tv shows before put a blind spot on me because I didnt want to figure out their slot because we were enjoying each others company. They were wolf and we lost so hard, so I am not letting anything innocent pass

I can possibly town lean this. Scum could go at this approach but I find it likelier to be town tbh

Boquise wrote:

EnderWiggin wrote: I refuse to scumhunt on D0 so enjoy me sitting around memeing and pocketing Rondo

Kinda out of nowhere tbh

Boquise wrote:

lucy wrote:

EnderWiggin wrote:

lucy wrote:

EnderWiggin wrote:

lucy wrote:

lmao, that’s reassuring

Hi.

hello, how are ya?

Tired and distracted, you?

focused and well rested

Ender, did you write your "I refuse to scum hunt on D0" post because of this Lucy post?

Boquise wrote:

Creature wrote: I'm surprised I wasn't quoted anywhere

Hello Creature tbh
Why are you surprised about this? You were also quoted.

Creature wrote: I have a wolflean already, but maybe I should wait for day 1 to start first

There is a strategic rationale to hide a wolf lean during D0 imo. Why do you think you should wait tbh?

Here's a hodge-podge of Boq vibe reads from the initial Day 0 period. I appreciate the proactivity, though I acknowledge that naked vibe reads like these aren't that hard to post for mafia.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: Also, I have become a bit too old and seasoned to be worried on how I come across and whether I fit in in a new community. So if I am being annoying and stuff, just tell me tbh!

Same tbh. When I play somewhere new I just kinda go full Me and let them react to it however they will tbh. Good attitude tbh. This is irrelevant to the ISO I just wanted to say tbh

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

Creature wrote: ITT people discuss how to play champs but don't follow their own advices

Who do you think isn't following their advice and why?

Boquise wrote: Regarding the "not say your wolf leans on D0" thing I asked Creature about. I mentioned that there are some reasons and given Creature has now replied, I will say mine.

Scum reads tend to make people defensive/emotional. Since D0 seems to be jokish, I reckon it could from one perspective ruin the "chill phase" and from another perspective, give scum hints on how to act accordingly.

I am not really pro hiding thoughts, but I think it is better to focus on town reads. I did have a dude on my ol' homesite who was great at sniffing out scum in our N1 phases tho (we had N1 starting before D1 and open night chat for everyone) by just looking at how players acted, if they were nervous etc.


Creature's response is lol and creature-esque. I'm not really satisfied, but it is D0 so!

Just logging as a starting point for Boq's take on Creature.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: Honestly i don't want to come off as a try-hard tbh! But I am feeling like a race horse just waiting to start galloping! Jurying has made me super excited to play mafia again, and I was going to get that itch in Team Mafia (a game where each player slot consists of multiple players but only one acc can post for each day) and the game got solved before it was my turn to play in the thread!! It was fun solving in our btsc but still

Then I played a gif only game and it was fun and stuff, but limited what I could say and I was also busy at that time.

So I am thinking in five dimensions right now smh tbh!

Boq projects a certain eagerness to get into the thick of the Mafia experience, and I think his play to this point is a decent reflection of that. He took plenty of stances at least.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

EnderWiggin wrote: I have been told by many people about the mythical Creature Spam.

I have yet to see it actually happen.

I think a decent portion of my perspective is derived from recent surfing around MU as I compiled statistics and saw Creature with a million posts in X or Y games. Have you played with him often

Creature definitely posts more as town than scum and had a defeatist persona as scum where he hardly posted. However he has improved a lot during these last years tbh.

Iirc I spearheaded a Creature misyeet in our first game and everyone chastised me on how it was obvious Creature town meta lmao

A few people challenged my meta perspective about Creature, so perhaps it's of note that Boq was one to essentially support it. The meaning of this moment depends mostly on Creature's alignment.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

RondoDimBuckle wrote:

Alison wrote:

RondoDimBuckle wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: @RondoDimBuckle, Alison has placed a vote on your head. Please talk about that and thanks

It is a thing she has done :shrug:. I dont really care too much because I knew it was coming and it makes me happy

Why would someone attacking you make you happy?

Because I am a giant troll and love when I can elicit an emotional reaction from people. Ala, you entering thread and insta voting me. Its predictability is food for the soul. It just makes me happy

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Townie schadenfreude, perhaps.jpeg tbh

Boquise wrote:

MacDougall wrote: hey rondo and boq, do you have anything interesting to say about who is or is not mafia?

Hi tbh
Lucy isn't mafia, Seanze isn't mafia, Alison isn't mafia tbh

Boquise wrote: I read Rondo as town, I think

Just a few more quick takes to throw into the cauldron for Day 0 and early Day 1. Tracking progressions as I go.

One trend I note is that when Boq's vibe read is positive, he tends to voice it concretely as "town" or "isn't mafia". When he is not making a town read on someone else, he tends to ask questions or poke instead of defaulting to "scum read". I like that as a general policy, though it likely doesn't say much about Boq's alignment.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: Lmao I think it is fun!

I feel like thread state-wise, Rando is rand>town. Aside from being funny, I feel like they have made some tonally townie posts. Example: the one where they talk about AtE, not wanting to omgus Alison, then votes Alison. I am not sure at all how Rando approaches the game, but I don't think a scum player there would break the "lmao this is so funny that you're tunnelling me" spiel so quickly. I think these are things scum are more interested in keeping consistent.

I did get sad when they refused to help me with reading Ender tho

Alison is someone I have discussed with in MU discord regarding mafia theory, and I have seen her play (but haven't played with). So I know from start that I find her stiff and archaic when it comes to the game. It is easy for me to town read that sort of play when it is probably NAI. I am town reading her for her debacle with Rando. Specifically a post I quoted before saying "mmmm fair observation". My gut says that's townie tbh

Trying to not default to "lmao it is town vs town" though.

What are your thoughts on those two players?

Here's a development of some of those prior vibe reads, on Rondo and Alison. I'm glad that if Boq's inclination is to view both participants in the early Alison/Rondo kerfuffle as town, that he went to the trouble of providing individual, unique perspectives instead of, as he puts it, defaulting to the "lmao t/t".

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

EnderWiggin wrote: Jay is absolutely able to replicate his town-leader-yness as wolf. While his content or detail mileage might vary, I find it hard to believe that Jay can be read on "Is he approaching game as a 'make town collaborate' thing?" given that's almost his trademark from all that people have told me in the past.

That's fair tbh
JJJ is a null for me right now tbh

I'm not sure I recall Boq giving a clear read on me in this game (other than null), so that's kind of weird. I have 400 posts, and probably had a solid hundo by this point. I'll see if there's anything in the ISO as I go.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:
I do not, but I do believe that town Mac would allow for more data before gauging someone he has a track record of reading correctly.

That is what's throwing me off. Your conclusion was drawn far more quickly than I'd expect.

However, the gusto I feel from your posts is in line to how I perceive town Mac. It is quite the contradiction.

Do you, Mac, feel as if your ability to read me has shifted at all in the past year? If so, do you feel it has improved or declined?

Maybe Mac plays differently here, but my expectation of town Mac is that he creates reads by tunnelling a player and looking at what ripples that causes in the thread. Basically going in with a machine gun and "100% sure someone is scum". So your first sentence doesn't really vibe with my experience tbh

Marking this down for the initial interaction of Boq with Wilgy. I want to see how this develops moving forward. This post on its own power means little to me.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

Alison wrote: @Boquise Run me through the reads you feel the strongest about, please.

Lucy - I think the way she approaches the thread and how she responded to my question on her wall to be alike how she played in her quali.

Seanze - I liked the way they started to form reads early on in D0

Mac - Now this one is a bit difficult. I have a few expectations of Mac when he plays as either alignment (and I have rn a 100% accuracy on reading him as both alignments). Rn I think he is checking off the town boxes. He is a bit tunnelly, but the tunnels help him form reads. Still am a bit wary because I am not used to Mac not being the loudest person in the room.


So plenty of my reads are not "strong" - they are feels. I am trying to replicate how I have read the games as a jury member, and add it to my regular repertoire. Which is to just bookmark things that on a first read feels "good" tbh

Alison asked Boq for his strongest reads, and he provided these three answers. It's a little surprising he referenced these lighter vibe-driven impressions of lucy and Seanzie instead of some reads he had developed more concretely. The Mac read is a waffle. Some trepidation is okay, we'll see how it develops.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: I think Nate sounds similar to his G1 play tbh
We pretty much have the same poe!

This can serve as a summary of Boq's reads into the first half of Day 1. If his POE was pretty much the same as mine, you can click his post here to see what mine was for context.

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Boquise wrote:

Creature wrote: I could see it being Marmot + NaateTheLesser

Maybe DrWilgy for third

2/3 of those have been fairly quiet. It is sorta typical to scum read the low posters because everyone sounds so townie and solvy. Is there anything on Marmot that you felt, as you wrote this post, was wolfy?

I believe this is Boq's first mention of Marmot, which has importance since that's where his Day 1 vote ended up landing. At this point Marmot had very few if any posts, so the question Boq presents here is pretty token and ~fine.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

Marmot wrote: Hey folks, my allergies have been killing me all evening, and playing mafia doesn't feel feasible. I won't be around until near the deadline. I'll try to catch up and participate at that point.

I was building up to push you but now that feels like morally wrong tbh

Or at least that I have made an assumption that is NAI

Will write something longer soonish and place a vote

I think Creature is town

Boquise wrote: Creature has several strings of posts next to each other containing game related stuff. I am still peeved by him ignoring my question, but I have learned the hard way that someone ignoring you doesn't make them scum.

I lean him town because of the post strings (on phone rn so can't quote them).

I had early misgivings on Falcon due to his change of tone from the quali, but I decided to not push there but read what else he'd produce, since it is a weak thing to scum read someone for. The fact that Falcon got pushed by a few peeps made me think that Falcon could be a set-up for D1 misyeet but I haven't really felt any townie vibes from Falcon so..

Marmot is the player has the most scum equity. He isn't taking part of much discussion, is basically just there trying to stay relevant. However now when I know that he has been away because of allergies, it does feel like my conclusion is made on wrong premises. Again, I am comparing qualis, but I wolf read Marmot that game and he was town. He also contributed a lot to discussion. Now I have felt some of Marmot's posts surface townie but lacking in content. Another thing is Marmot complaining about us posting a lot, when he was a high poster in his quali.

Those are my takes

Boquise wrote: Town:
Mac
Lucy
Alison
Rondo
Seanize
Nate? (Feels like the same approach as in his quali)
JJJ?
Creature?
Ender?

Neutral:
Finger
Wilgy (I respect Alison's take there tho)
Dizzy

Scum leans:
Falcon
Marmot

Boquise wrote: [VOTE: Marmot ] aubergine

This comes about 22 hours later, so clearly in that period Boq found reason to view Marmot with some suspicion. He stated his rationale in the second post here, which I have color coded (this time with colors deliberate -- red reflects an assertion of a scum read, orange reflects suspicion, and yellow reflects null or a caveat). The qualifiers present in this read (and in the falcon read before it) are a bit jarring. I get the sense that Boq doesn't want to scum read either of them but does anyway, and places them both in the bottommost tier of his follow-up reads list. That's a concerning moment from the standpoint of authenticity.

This made Boq the lone voter for Marmot, and it was his final vote of Day 1 about 14 hours prior to the deadline. He remained the lone Marmot voter at the time he departed the thread for the phase.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: btw Dizzy you're about to hit 10,000 posts, prepare your ceremony

:cloud9:

Also, I wasn't going to say anything. Remember there's not really objective standards for sincerity. But you already know this.
Depending on the alignment of certain players, this game can be very losable in the game state right now. Winnable too, for sure.
I look forward to admire your WIM, and everyone else's too.

Marmot and Alison for town, here. Everything else up in the air.

I was philosophising about Dizzy potentially being with Marmot as scum, and that they are protecting a weaker scum mate, but this post doesn't feel aligned tbh

Unclear why this Dizzy post would be unaligned with Marmot.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Marmot wrote: Sure

You are appreciated.

The last thing I was hoping to achieve is the classical night kill analysis. Many people balk at the very idea of trying this, and I think they're wrong. Wifom is wifom blah blah, but we're remiss if we don't at least take a look. Moreover, in a mountainous game, at least one of the layers of wifom does not exist -- there are no doctor dodges. So it'd behoove us to review Mac and see where he sat. What we do with that I don't know right now, but we honor his memory enough to give him a voice.

If that's something that tickles you, I'd love to see what you come up with.

I kinda expected to be the kill because I was during D1 consensus town read with no on-going conflicts with other players. Whereas Mac, also highly town read, had a thing with Wilgy that could be exploited and easier to tinfoil because of Falcon and of site history*.

*What I mean with site history is that I am an unknown variable whilst Mac is a tried gun.

This tells me that Mac's reads can have threatened the woofs tbh

:ponder:

Mac was anti-Wilgy on Day 1, so for his read to be "exploited" would imply that Wilgy is town. Perhaps this was Boq's Night 1 mindset or perhaps not, but it's to be considered within his broader Wilgy perspective.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

EnderWiggin wrote: I was memeing before but actually Marmot just wolf.

Yea, Marmot is still a scum lean for me tbh

k why

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

Marmot wrote: To anyone who is voting for fingersplints, here's a couple links to recent wolf games from her.

Fargo Mafia - ok this was from a year ago. This is one of fs's most active games I've seen, she spent a lot of time early on talking about pretty much anything but reads, and even her reads were not very strong at the start.
Mafia Syndicate Normal Game - this is from a few months ago, fs barely posted, and her posts were all very short, and she does seem stilted in this one.

I'm not seeing either of these things from her. Yes fingersplints doesn't post a lot, but that is normal for her (and really it's that the rest of us just post way too much). What I have seen here is an almost immediate attempt to generate reads, explain them, and she's also considering how the game will play out based on flips and looking ahead, an approach which appears to be lacking in her scum meta.

I'd call her town right now.

Does Finger tend to use aggressive phrasing as town when questioned?

This is an odd moment that recalls some of lucy's controversies. I don't think fingersplints has used "aggressive phrasing" in this game. Interpretations can vary, so I dunno. Much more recently Boq expanded here (click). I don't think that post is aggressively phrased. :shrug2:

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

fingersplints wrote: Also thanks to those who answered my question about Boq. The wording is less weird since they do seem to be considered town, however it does still ping me a little when anyone talks about them myself in terms of being so town.
They are still null for me I guess

Gun to head: scum without much thread control doesn't take issue when a consensus town read townie calls themselves consensus town read. That scum player is likely to sheep the read for the moment and push elsewhere.

It is more town indicative to try to think independently and be paranoid over such statements. It is also pretty town indicative to not be generous with these sort of things. Disliking that someone reiterates town reads on them in a neutral manner is irrational and therefore also townie tbh

It's decent that despite the previous thing Boq ended up town reading fingersplints to some degree. Whatever the interpretation was of aggressive phrasing, the trajectory of that interpretation wasn't one of opportunism.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: Ftr Marmot's posts today gives me neither scum reads nor town reads. I haven't really cared I guess tbh

But it is noted that we have the same conclusion on Finger

Boquise wrote: @lucy why is it important in your opinion that Marmot and I today engage with each other?

Boquise wrote:

Marmot wrote:

Boquise wrote: @lucy why is it important in your opinion that Marmot and I today engage with each other?

Because we're both town, and it'd be a neat distraction from finding wolves. :wowee:

Lmao
Are you trying to pocket me

I could argue after a closer look at the first half of this ISO that lucy's concern was at least observant. I wish Boq did more to directly interact with Marmot before this point, because his read wasn't really moving. Marmot was his Day 1 vote after all.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Boquise wrote: Let's have an exercise
If you had an alignment check, who would be your first pick to check and why?

Wilgy

I think that sort would potentially break the game open

Huh hm
In your analysis of interactions, he is in the least amount of worlds though? Wouldn't it be better to pick someone who has equity with plenty of people?

Logging this as concrete that Boq was aware of my interactive analysis chart and Wilgy's place on it. This concerns me, because Boq ended the day with his vote on Wilgy. I will read on and get more context before I take that farther.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: @Boquise how do you feel about these wagons?

I lean Finger town and whilst I am nervous to call Marmot (I saw that little pocket attempt), I currently wouldn't want to meet him.

And the wagons as a whole:
Finger, Marmot, Creature, Lucy, Dizzy, Ender (tho idr if they are a wagon rn) - all match the "weird player not vibing with the thread atmosphere" archetype. In champs this year, this is the archetype that usually got yeeted and most of them were town that couldn't really get into town. I am not saying that all of these players are town, there were scum in champs that also qualified in this archetype.

But it makes me stop and think.
However, looking at the list I wrote, I would add at least Nate and Rondo too (only that I am currently trying to shield both). This is almost the whole player list so wtf yo?

Eh. Agree or disagree with Boq's premise here (that atypically-styled players are bait), the last sentence tends to invalidate the whole post. The orange thing is also a bit ugly at face value.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: Oh yeah Wilgy also qualifies to that archetype

He certainly does, probably more than anyone else. Why vote

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: But there has been plentiful of reactions when I have shielded LHF

INTERESTIIIIIING

Boquise wrote: Yo @JaggedJimmyJay
since you are much more used at analysing associations, what do you think of this?

[quotes snipped for length]

(which tho is kinda unrelated to what happened in the thread and stuff but still!)

How does this affect their (Nate, Finger, Dizzy) association with Alison?
Does this make them less or more likely, iyo, to be a wolf if Alison is wolf, or if Alison is town?

Boquise wrote: my qualms here with Alison is that she is on paper doing pushes that are easy to vibe with.
However they are textbook

So it depends on how much nuance she has when she towns tbh

Boquise wrote: [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

I wont keep this vote if Alison doesnt come back to the thread. If she is town, she is too valuable.

Over the latter portion of Day 2, Boq began a motion against Alison. It could be called "consistent" with the previous concerns about going after players that aren't "standard" for lack of a better word whereas Alison is by-the-book. I might like this moment more if I had a clearer understanding of where it came from and what Alison content is being described as textbook.

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: I havent decided what your alignment is yet JJJ, but you get a thumbs up anyway tbh

Why not?

Spoiler: show

Boquise wrote: out of the lhf folks, I am the most into voting Wilgy.

Boquise wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote: Ah! An interesting conundrum! *Sits up from study and lifts paper to light*

Seanzie, can be scum in this scenario. When given the opportunity to expand thinking, a joke reply was given not even considering alternatives to the action of voting me.

EnderWiggin I do not have enough data on, this can be either way.

*Brings the paper back down and stands up, beginning to pace around his study*

Macdougall however intrigues me the most here. I do believe that Mac has a good read on me, but is either wrong or is wolf. I do wonder if town Mac pushes on me in effort to solve, but the fervor I see does not seem to indicate that this is in fact fishing. Yes, Mac who is good at reading me, I do not feel would commit this hard to a scum read on me at this point. This is potentially Scum Mac. I will review in the morning as it is time for the doctor to get some well deserved rest.

My studies on Jay the all consuming will continue tomorrow.

*Turns off the lights and exits stage left*

So do you think that town Mac should be townreading you for your play prior to this post? If so can you show me the parts where you've towntold to a degree where you'd expect me to notice?

I do not, but I do believe that town Mac would allow for more data before gauging someone he has a track record of reading correctly.

That is what's throwing me off. Your conclusion was drawn far more quickly than I'd expect.

However, the gusto I feel from your posts is in line to how I perceive town Mac. It is quite the contradiction.

Do you, Mac, feel as if your ability to read me has shifted at all in the past year? If so, do you feel it has improved or declined?

First sentence, since when have you known me to not be bullish with making reads immediately? I don't think my track record of reading you is superb. I've read you wrong quite a lot. I think I read you poorly when we first started playing, went through a patch of reading you really well, and then when you came back from hiatus and started playing more intentionally I lost my ability to read you because you were playing entirely new again.

In this game you just seem to be making posts for the sake of it.

this post makes me think back on my discussion with Wilgys regarding him scum reading Mac for the push tbh
hm.

Boquise wrote: [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Boquise wrote: i'mma sleep

my vote is on Wilgy because I think a player who has history (according to Marmot iirc) with mac should not crumble at Mac pressure tbh

Here's the final Wilgy progression. This bothers me a lot on a few dimensions.

1) This is another day phase in which Boq's final vote went to a player that, in that moment, had no other votes. Boq's Marmot vote on Day 1 was a similar case, albeit earlier in the phase. This time, Boq's vote made the poll tally 4-2-1-1-1-1-1-1 (fingersplints-Marmot-Ender-Dizzy-Wilgy-lucy-Creature-Alison). As of Boq's final post of Day 2 (8:12 PM EDT, 7:12 PM per Nate's records), the poll tally was 4-3-2-2 (Ender-fingersplints-Marmot-Wilgy). Neither Day 1 nor Day 2 allow me to say with any confidence that Boq is concerned with impacting the final vote.

2) I already mentioned this earlier, but I don't think the orange bit is a terribly fair viewpoint. It's a lot to say that Wilgy "crumbled", and knowing Mac should not make a big difference with respect to how impactful his pressure can be.

3) Boq did not seem to care at all about my interactive reviews or my chart. I already affirmed earlier in this review that he was aware of it, and of Wilgy's posture in it, and it doesn't appear to me that this made any difference to Boq at all when making his voting decision. Perhaps this is my conceit speaking, but I think Boq has more reason than many others would to at least pay some respect to the work I do in that kind of chart. He was in the game where I produced arguably my strongest interaction chart ever (correctly cleared Hally and Phighter, correctly isolated mafia teammates). I'm not saying anyone needs to treat my work like it is infallible, but it shouldn't be ignored outright. Moreover, this plays into a larger trend with Boq -- his treatment of me in this game. I have been a null read all along, or more recently I get a share of his tinfoil over night kill analysis but still without an actual read. I'm not sure Boq is paying much heed if any, or even attention, to the posts I make in this game thread.

Conclusion

This review represents, so far at least, the most significant production of the ISOs I have been doing through Day 3. I have a lot of concerns about Boquise, and that is a stark contrast to the perspective I had of him prior to this stage of the game. Some of these concerns are at a smaller level, and I don't ask that Boq address every single one of them -- that would not be a valuable use of the limited time remaining in the phase. But some of this stuff needs to be addressed, particularly the concerns I expressed about the Wilgy vote. I would really like to hear from other folks beyond Boq about this review as well, or about Boq in general, because this is the first time in the game he has been subjected to serious pressure of any sort. Let's talk about it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:43 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:38 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:31 pm @JaggedJimmyJay How capable do you think Marmot is of fooling you?

How much did you care about Marmot's defence of Finger, and how did that inform your view of Finger. Cause it looks to me like you didn't care much at all, while being very aware of it.

I think he's reasonably capable of fooling me in the sense that his game should be respected. I'm not sure it's happened that many times though.

Marmot's view of fingersplints has meant something to me. It has not redefined my view of splints, because I think there are still concerns to be addressed with her slot, but perhaps it has made some difference to encourage my voting hands to other people to this point.

My read on fingersplints does rely on her maintaining the level of play that she has been on Day 1 and 2. I do think she had a townie start to the game, but keeping that up will be telling too.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:40 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:35 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:31 pmI have JJJ in my immediate POE

You'd referenced the notion that we've failed to kill mafia and that "arrogantly" you don't think town is here if you/Mac/myself are all town. Is there more to POEing me than that?

There is the question of why Seanzie died over you. One explanation is that you are mafia. There are other explanations, like that Seanzie was onto someone, but it's a possibility I am considering, especially since one of the people Seanzie was "onto" has flipped town and I think another is also town.

The way you and Ender sprang at each other at SOD3, followed by relatively little interaction or pushing after that initial spat, was weird and I said so at the time. You've since clarified that you were scumreading Ender since the day before, but I still think the way you attacked him, calling his posts "fake" etc., smacks of a generic treatment that I don't associate with town you.

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:30 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:28 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:16 pm [VOTE: Sleep] aubergine

I have iso'd marmot, I think he's probably town tbh. I was mad that he was pushing and made a mistake concerning me

Did you mostly focus on Marmot, or did you have time to look elsewhere too?

just him tbh, was kinda busy today and yesterday

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:16 pm [VOTE: Sleep] aubergine

I have iso'd marmot, I think he's probably town tbh. I was mad that he was pushing and made a mistake concerning me

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:24 pm Scolding reviews from Nate tbh

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:07 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:06 pm this game is so much harder than the qualifier tbh

Agreed

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:00 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:55 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:54 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:51 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:43 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:41 pmcorrect

Cool. Can you say why? All I remember you saying about me is that I could be planning to stay more disengaged or something. Which gives you no gold stars.

you came on all of a sudden with a big chat presence after being on poe, and your explanations are very forcing. either I'm misreading you completely or there is an agenda, and I'm a pessimist

This sounds like a damned if I do and damned if I don't though.
Like, I'm always chatty. I'm usually among the top posters, if I have the time.
I didn't have the time D1 and most of D2. Got more time towards end of D2. And hallo, here I am. So I'm going to post a lot (while I should be reading more tbh)

Why are my "explanations very forcing"? What do you mean by that?

I also want to know why the frequency of my posting is alignment indicative to you, @lucy

lots of thread control after Mac and Sean died who had similar thread control, leaving you unchallenged. if you're right, and town, I will assume that you'll get chopped. its damned if you do and damned if you don't because I have to make a quick read on you that is less open to interpretation before break starts tbh.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:45 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:44 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:38 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:25 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:15 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:47 pm The timestamps for me are 7:26am for the vote post and 1:18pm for the next one, so it looks like they switched their vote to Wilgy and then dipped for a few hours, fine. But the poll doesn't match up. I was taking screenshots every once in a while, and a screenshot at 9:22am shows Dizzy's vote still on Fingersplints, the next screenshot at 10:58am shows the vote now on Wilgy. So basically somewhere between 2-4 hours after the vote post is when they voted in the poll, during a time when they weren't otherwise posting in the thread. Does this say anything about their alignment? No, I don't think it does. But it does lend some support to my gut feeling that they're not as disengaged as they appear, which is why I wanted some more eyes on them today.

I wouldn't touch Nate until FX.

This amuses me because you cleared me for a timestamp read in that hydra game. At least you're consistent :D

Oh shit, did I?

Well the last three people I cleared off timestamp reads didn't replicate it in their scum games so I'm still gonna trust it. I will be using timestamp reads until I get burned for them and it's been 4 years and I haven't.

You were also a wolf there trying to get me to back off you, so I wasn't sure if was an actual read or just strategic.

I don't remember that game, but if I was a wolf I was probably just mimicking my town play. I am notorious for being an ardent believer in clear people who make timestamp reads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:44 pm Maybe breaks should be a regular thing. 72/24 with 24 hours off during the day sounds kind of amazing

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:38 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:25 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:15 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:47 pm The timestamps for me are 7:26am for the vote post and 1:18pm for the next one, so it looks like they switched their vote to Wilgy and then dipped for a few hours, fine. But the poll doesn't match up. I was taking screenshots every once in a while, and a screenshot at 9:22am shows Dizzy's vote still on Fingersplints, the next screenshot at 10:58am shows the vote now on Wilgy. So basically somewhere between 2-4 hours after the vote post is when they voted in the poll, during a time when they weren't otherwise posting in the thread. Does this say anything about their alignment? No, I don't think it does. But it does lend some support to my gut feeling that they're not as disengaged as they appear, which is why I wanted some more eyes on them today.

I wouldn't touch Nate until FX.

This amuses me because you cleared me for a timestamp read in that hydra game. At least you're consistent :D

Oh shit, did I?

Well the last three people I cleared off timestamp reads didn't replicate it in their scum games so I'm still gonna trust it. I will be using timestamp reads until I get burned for them and it's been 4 years and I haven't.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:38 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:37 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:20 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:17 pm I think I'm reconstructing a town core here (before being done reading of course)

Alison
Nate
Marmot

Is that cool?

Like, I'd add Ender, but I don't want to be a doofus

Lucy
jjj
boq
creature
fs
rondo

would be where 3 mafia are lol

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:21 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:19 pm Who is your towncore lucy?

boq, jjj, rondo

I don't think your scumlist and towncore are supposed to have 100% overlap..

She was speaking from dizzys pov

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:20 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:17 pm I think I'm reconstructing a town core here (before being done reading of course)

Alison
Nate
Marmot

Is that cool?

Like, I'd add Ender, but I don't want to be a doofus

Lucy
jjj
boq
creature
fs
rondo

would be where 3 mafia are lol

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:21 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:19 pm Who is your towncore lucy?

boq, jjj, rondo

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:23 pm Mac is the policy night 1 mafia kill when he's town

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:15 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:47 pm The timestamps for me are 7:26am for the vote post and 1:18pm for the next one, so it looks like they switched their vote to Wilgy and then dipped for a few hours, fine. But the poll doesn't match up. I was taking screenshots every once in a while, and a screenshot at 9:22am shows Dizzy's vote still on Fingersplints, the next screenshot at 10:58am shows the vote now on Wilgy. So basically somewhere between 2-4 hours after the vote post is when they voted in the poll, during a time when they weren't otherwise posting in the thread. Does this say anything about their alignment? No, I don't think it does. But it does lend some support to my gut feeling that they're not as disengaged as they appear, which is why I wanted some more eyes on them today.

I wouldn't touch Nate until FX.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:05 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:47 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:16 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:59 pm Still think Lucy is just town who gets scummy under pressure. It's not a lock, but she seems really similar to her qualifier to me. Also, both times she's been in the hot seat she's named me as a scumread, which makes me think she believes it. Think I'd be an odd choice if she were just scrambling for names.

Is there anyone who scumreads you that you thunk is coming from a malicious mindset?

You've been a wagon every day, who stands out to you in those pushes?

Yeah, after asking you I realized it would be a good question to ask myself.

Definitely Ender. I have waffles on him at times, but I don't see any indication that he believes his suspicion of me.

Lucy's omgus isn't inspiring, but townies do that in a situation where I case her, so that reaction is reasonable.

I don't have a firm grasp of Dizzy's read on me, which is a little concerning.

I don't know if there's anyone else who actively scumreads me. They're all dead :wowee:

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:16 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:59 pm Still think Lucy is just town who gets scummy under pressure. It's not a lock, but she seems really similar to her qualifier to me. Also, both times she's been in the hot seat she's named me as a scumread, which makes me think she believes it. Think I'd be an odd choice if she were just scrambling for names.

Is there anyone who scumreads you that you thunk is coming from a malicious mindset?

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:16 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:59 pm Still think Lucy is just town who gets scummy under pressure. It's not a lock, but she seems really similar to her qualifier to me. Also, both times she's been in the hot seat she's named me as a scumread, which makes me think she believes it. Think I'd be an odd choice if she were just scrambling for names.

Is there anyone who scumreads you that you thunk is coming from a malicious mindset?

Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:20 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:18 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:33 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:28 pm I'm not sure I agree as much as the rest of you that NKA points so strongly to a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison, YET. I think that would be true if the thread consensus yesterday had been that there must be a wolf in those three, but that wasn't the thread consensus IMO. (Not that it couldn't be true, I just don't think the Sean kill should make us tinfoil that trio without other reasons to tinfoil).

I'm not sure that I follow. Is there a way that you could re-word or re-state the orange portion?

Sure. Not to make everything about champs, but, I think the pattern that Boq is applying is that there were some games where it became notable that a certain group of "known to be good at the game" players weren't being NK'd (the game with Nanook/Jack/Dobby is one), and the thread consensus became that the group can't be all pure, and because there was a wolf in that group they continued to kill elsewhere so as not to narrow that "POE". And I'm saying I don't think we match that pattern at this point, because "there must be a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison" was not a consensus yesterday.

lets just depart to standard game stuff tbh
If 1 wolf gets put in the strong town group of a game, there will later be issues for said wolf. "Why are you still alive?"
Wolf can choose between two things: a) play delibaretely worse than the other strong town. b) kill outside of the group, but not inside the poe. When the "Why are you still alive" question occurs, there will be other players that question can be applied to as well.

Though I will won't discuss that much more since it is game theory tbh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:14 pm @NateTheLesser I still owe Creature a full reassessment, but my initial perception on Day 3 is that a Seanzie kill may point to a town Creature. Seanzie protected him pretty staunchly, while people like myself and a few others that have been anti-Creature much of the game are still here. I wonder if that represents an invitation for us to kill him without the same resistance.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:12 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:09 pm Putting this vote down for now:
[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

My top suspect is still Fingersplints for the same reasons as yesterday, with the additional point that Seanzie was pushing her for a time yesterday and is now dead. But I also want some more heat on Creature. I know a few people have voiced a townread, so I'm interested in hearing more about whether it's because he's playing to his town meta or something more than that.

Fair, but Sean did press a lot of people yesterday, including also myself, Jay, lucy, and probably others (Ender too maybe?)

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:00 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:19 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:26 am Meh

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Osmosis

@NateTheLesser, in your vote sheet, is this the Dizzy vote you have marked with ??? for the time?

Well, this shows that you're reading closely. (And it gives me an honest town ping on you, not just in a self-centered way because you're using my spreadsheet, but because to me it shows that you were interested in seeing the wagon context of Dizzy's votes while doing your ISO, which is a level of detail wolves often don't bother with if the ISO is just for show.)

Anyway, the post you quoted turned into the "hmm" that I mentioned earlier, that made me wonder if I should be paying closer attention to Dizzy. Because from their post history, there's the vote post you quoted and then their next post in the thread is this one:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:18 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:15 pm I also hate that it’s tied me and Marmot. I don’t want to be forced to vote practically my only defender but I definitely won’t make it awake til EOD today

Who do you want to vote?

The timestamps for me are 7:26am for the vote post and 1:18pm for the next one, so it looks like they switched their vote to Wilgy and then dipped for a few hours, fine. But the poll doesn't match up. I was taking screenshots every once in a while, and a screenshot at 9:22am shows Dizzy's vote still on Fingersplints, the next screenshot at 10:58am shows the vote now on Wilgy. So basically somewhere between 2-4 hours after the vote post is when they voted in the poll, during a time when they weren't otherwise posting in the thread. Does this say anything about their alignment? No, I don't think it does. But it does lend some support to my gut feeling that they're not as disengaged as they appear, which is why I wanted some more eyes on them today.

Nice.

Forgot about this, but yes, I did forget to vote Wilgy in poll. I thought I did it when I returned, but can't remember. I recall noticing I had forgotten about it though, and I wanted my vote to be on Wilgy.

I prefer to post when on my Mac. Occasionally, I'll read on my phone when I'm on the tram or the toilet lol, but I rarely phone post if I can avoid it.

I've been as engage with the game as I've been able to. Switching between back reading and engaging in real time. Probably more real time. I'm in the slow process now of reading up on D2. When I'm done with that and the current day, I've read everything and retained nothing

I don't know if this tells you anything.

I don't think I've been trying to appear like I'm disengaged. Which is also a message to @Alison for what she said on D2. Like, I don't feel my play or absence has been audacious or that I've been luxuriating in it. I think it's been pretty straight forward, and the fact is that most of the time when posting, I had read little of the game. On D2, I read D1. Now I'm reading D2. It is what it is.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:19 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:26 am Meh

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Osmosis

@NateTheLesser, in your vote sheet, is this the Dizzy vote you have marked with ??? for the time?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:18 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:15 pm I also hate that it’s tied me and Marmot. I don’t want to be forced to vote practically my only defender but I definitely won’t make it awake til EOD today

Who do you want to vote?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:33 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:28 pm I'm not sure I agree as much as the rest of you that NKA points so strongly to a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison, YET. I think that would be true if the thread consensus yesterday had been that there must be a wolf in those three, but that wasn't the thread consensus IMO. (Not that it couldn't be true, I just don't think the Sean kill should make us tinfoil that trio without other reasons to tinfoil).

I'm not sure that I follow. Is there a way that you could re-word or re-state the orange portion?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:26 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:44 am I'm pretty sure Creature is town.

Low key same.

Boquise wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:19 am

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:29 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:10 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:09 pm What do we think of Dizzy?

Do you have an opinion already?

They were mostly null for me yesterday, though they did fit the profile of "middle Falcon voter" (and they now also fit the profile of "middle Wilgy voter"). But I noticed something that made me wonder if I should be paying closer attention to them so I figured I'd see if there are strong feelings either way in the thread. I know you voted for them at one point.

(The thing I noticed really isn't anything to get excited about it just made me "hmm", and I'll be sharing what it is, it's not like a cryptic "tell" that I'll never explain)

what is a "middle voter"? Imo I sparked Wilgy to garner more votes when I voted them tbh

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:10 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:09 pm What do we think of Dizzy?

Do you have an opinion already?

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:11 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:10 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:06 pm that was unexpected

Who was your guess?

Alison or boq

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:06 pm that was unexpected

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:12 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:08 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:50 pm Nate, I think you asked me about fingersplints.

I talked about her here a little bit. I just think that this game doesn't at all match her playstyle in either of the games I mentioned.

Unfortunately for her, a townie game looks scummy to some people because she generally posts less than everyone else, and her reads and explanations generally aren't a bajillion words long.

I'm just not remembering any reads that weren't counterwagons, and there hasn't been any followthrough. If we don't kill her today I hope she does things tomorrow.

What would you consider followthrough?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:11 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:08 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:06 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:04 pm AT most one wolf in Dizzy/Boq/Rondo tbh.

But I think there's none.

Can you walk me through that thinking?

Dizzy is town.

Boq is town.

You are town.

I individually townread you all. I don't think wolves have me so snowed that I have all the wolves as town, or even two wolves.

So at most one wolf, in my opinion, in that stack.

But probably none because sometimes I'm good at the game.

Ok thanks, the contradiction between the two original statements had me at odds

Snowed? Thats bamboozled by another name right?

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:50 pm Nate, I think you asked me about fingersplints.

I talked about her here a little bit. I just think that this game doesn't at all match her playstyle in either of the games I mentioned.

Unfortunately for her, a townie game looks scummy to some people because she generally posts less than everyone else, and her reads and explanations generally aren't a bajillion words long.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:49 pm It seems wolves know if they whine enough they can save themselves from being lynched

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:42 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:37 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:27 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:26 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:02 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:56 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:53 pm

Some of the suspicion is legit, some not.

"I am a wolf, but these are dumb reasons" :P

No, the opposite. I am town, with some understandable suspicion.

Then why arent you doing anything

Spoiler: show

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

What do you consider "anything"?

When you get back (if there's time) can you point to some specific posts that you've liked today? I think you're town but I just really haven't seen solving from her, so I'm trying to figure out why we're looking at the same thing and getting an opposite impression.

This I loved and I as I was scrolling I wanted to see more of that, just one after another. Hell even a hard push or sus on me for parking my vote on her all day. ANYTHING
viewtopic.php?p=930078#p930078

I got a weird soft push that made my gut wiggle
viewtopic.php?p=930097#p930097

and a meme post
viewtopic.php?p=930104#p930104

Did fingers post between when I started and got here?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:39 pm I'm still amazed that some people aren't aware of this