The Syndicate

[VOTE: NANOOK] aubergine

best I can do to at least let it rand between NANOOK and nutella

:\ don't feel great about this

I honestly am struggling to decide who to vote between NANOOK and fingersplints

ugh wait but then nutella gets eliminated

yeah I agree fingersplints feels townie with this EOD

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:36 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:36 pm tbh kinda want to elim fingersplints

Why?

I wrote something if you scroll up in that post about fingersplints / TSP/ JOH

[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

voting fingersplints but will still tiebreak and vote NANOOK at EOD if votes are tied

tbh kinda want to elim fingersplints

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:18 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:16 pm nutella is at least posting a little more villagery even tho it's not much

the only villagery thing being her tying me to nook and yet i still feel like it needs more aggressiveness

but let's say it may suffice for the bar that is reading villagers for this game. ooooooh what a place to be in

I think nutella is townie, mostly for her posts at EOD1 where she votes falcon but calls it silly, and is like "smh dunno why we didn't vote urist or srceenplay"

I think it's kinda hard to understand the game state if you are backreading, but I kinda felt that same exasperation that she was expressing in the moment. We had like 10 minutes left til EOD, and Gav was the leading wagon with 5 or 6 votes. The Urist counterwagon was just not taking off, so we swapped in the end to someone more universally acceptable. Like, of course it's frustrating and exasperating to not get to elim the person you think is scum and have to compromise on some random lowposter just to save the doc.

Like, I dunno if she's the sort to fake emotions as scum and accurately mimic a townie state, but in my mind, I think it'd be hard to do for most people.

I want to temporarily turn the conversation towards the lowposters, mostly so that we have something to work with later in the game.
===
Fingersplints

Behaviorally, I think fingersplints still remains scummy, mostly for her disingenuous vote on Urist on D2

#779 - Gonna place a vote there while I wait for the explanation.
The terminology there reads like setting up some LHF.

[VOTE: URIST] aubergine

I wasn't quite there at the time, but IIRC, votes were almost tied between Urist and srceenplay around the time of her vote. Maybe not exactly tied, but close. Her voting Urist for a stretch-y associative connection, and wanting an explanation, is kinda weird. IDK why you would need to vote someone to clarify something, and big brain associative connections were being thrown around quite often. I could see this as scum!fingersplints feeling a need to vote before EOD, and just OMGUSing and latching onto something easy.

The fact that the Urist and srceenplay wagons were pretty close should have given most people pause when voting, and probably would warrant more thought into your vote, since the vote becomes more than just "I think X is scum" but moreso "I think X is scum over Y".

Her vote comes kinda easy within that context.
===
TonyStarkPrime

I really dunno what to say about this person other than "glaringly absent" and "wolfy to the point where I'm starting to think it might be TWTBAW"
===
JackofHearts

Gives me a coasting vibe. I can't really find anything decisively town/scum indicative in his ISO.

I think this is the most alignment indicative thing I found that gives me a townie ping, barring that it isn't faked.

#902 - I'm going to bed. I just wanted to see who was dead. Didn't even finish Hawkeye episode 3 and it's really good.

This post just feels like Jack posting stream of conscious random comments, with his stuff about Hawkeye and going to bed. Him saying that he wanted to see who was dead would have to come from town since mafia already know who is NK.

I mean, could be faked. But that's the best I've got so far regarding JOH.

If it remains tied at EOD, I'll tie break and vote NANOOK over NAA.

Though IDK, I'm still trying to think of if there's a better scum candidate.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:44 am "you guys are certified wacky"

that's what it was

Oh well if it helps, this is my first time playing here (hence the self introduction).

I normally play on another site, so my "normal" might not be other people's "normal". Seeing people vote so fast and a LP vs Gav wagon already set up so quick into D1 is where that "you guys are wacky" feeling came from, since on my home site, people are about 10x slower to vote and less aggressive. Like, normally we just yeet lowposting LHF or something on D1.

actually thinking about it, I mean, it could be NANOOK with like, the lowposters :\

that solve just kinda feels too convenient though

@DrWigly

I’m just wondering, but have you played with NANOOK a lot before? Like, how much confidence do you have in your read?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:36 pm Can you explain the limitations?

Nutella seems likely candidate for a 2nd, TSP or JoH is valid as a third.

Hell even NAA/Dolb as a 3rd as an option makes sense as Nook's last post of 'this is fine get dolby' feels like a be all end all distance to me. Nothing in Nook's ISO is inspiring that they actually believe what they say about NAA.

Nutella's vote now is meh.

Can you explain why nutella's vote is meh?

This is what I noted down regarding interactions with NANOOK:
DrWigly - Pushing against NANOOK and voting for NANOOK since D1. Probably not W/W
srceenplay - NANOOK's second post said "sheep srceenplay". Feel like this is kinda whack and unlikely for both to be wolves, since it feels kinda weird for one wolf to announce that people should sheep the other wolf.
NAA/Dolby - Doesn't quite feel paired with the 'difference check' talk. If NANOOK and NAA/Dolby are wolves, that means that NANOOK said the difference check stuff on D2 knowing that Urist would flip town, and that he would be essentially boxing himself into bussing/voting NAA/Dolby, and it would look bad if he didn't follow through. That sort of far-out planning and scheming doesn't feel like it would come from NANOOK, personality wise, from what I can tell. Also, wolves generally like to keep their options open.

nutella - votes for NANOOK on D2 and keeps vote on, and has been pushing NANOOK. I think there is sincerity in the push. If this is a bus, it's a pretty aggressive one. TBH, I don't think it's needed from the wolf team at this point since there are so many other LHF to go after. Though with the 2 MLs, they can certainly afford it. There is enough doubt about nutella's alignment that her bussing for towncred at this point would make sense strategically. Independent of interaction, I think nutella is townie, and maybe this is why I have a reluctance to see her vote as bussing. I read #922 ("lol you cant force a push on me and you know that") as villagery confidence tone-wise, among other instances.

Lime Coke - I think Lime Coke is solidly town.
tedxtr - I think ted's recent string of posts about nutella feel townie.

fingersplints -
JOH -
TSP -

am I reading too much into things lol

@nutella @DrWigly or anyone else

If NANOOK is scum, who could be his scum buddies?

I agree that NANOOK feels scummy, but I mean, so did Urist so I guess I’m more cautious with the train of thought of “acts scummy —> is scum”

I’ve been looking at pairings, and it feels like the options are kinda limited if he’s wolf.

I think we need to re-eval, because at this point, I think we’ve had a lot of town wagons, and it doesn’t quite feel right to go down the road of sticking to our D1 reads and continuously just elimming that set of people.

Ideally going forward, I think we should broaden the focus.

With Urist’s flip, I realized that I might not be the best at reading mafia players who behaviorally don’t exactly fall into my stereotype of towniness. screenplay, like Urist, is tonally leaning towards town despite behaviorally pinging my scum radar.

Don’t have a lot of time today but I’ll try to make do with what I have.

srceenplay wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:17 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:01 am

srceenplay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:42 am

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:07 am

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:41 am Honestly 24 hours isn't much time to work with for day 1, so I'm more just wanting to to get something going and getting people to do stuff.
TBH I'm not really opposed to lynching myself just because the fact so many people have given reads on me to the point where It's probably advantages just to get connections.
I'm not 100% sure about Gavial, but I'm leaning a more towards it being Mafia, though I want to see a proper response from him about my accusation to really be able to tell.

If this doesn’t fuckin scream town.
Y’all are nuts!


Do me a favour though LP and vote someone for CW because I don’t wanna lose you.

How the hell is “town” OK dying an obvious town play? More like scumy play on emotions.

Are you two both scum distancing?

Screenplay matching my opinion. I like it.

Not exactly "I agree"

Don't feel like arguing with you on this.

More effective to just focus energy on other slots and solve you via other methods.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:02 pm i remember you scum reading urist, what are your thoughts on him now / his wagon?

Not much has changed. I still can't come around to him being town.

I see that he voted nutella after you outed a suspicion on nutella. His play here just feels so sheepy, like he's scum helping snowball other people's pushes.

His wagon is kinda weird.

I'm trying to think if it's town indicative that no one is really townreading him or defending him now, either explicitly or implicitly?
- His EOD1 outbust (#522) seems a bit overly brash if coming from scum, which could point to him being town. But anger is one of the easier emotions to fake.

@TonyStarkPrime do you wanna at least vote before EOD

ngl, but I have no idea what to do with TSP

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:44 pm I don't think any of us are saying he's lock town and couldn't do this as mafia, we're just saying he's more likely town than mafia...and that this is pretty much the textbook reaction to playing with srceen for the first time

What specifically makes you think he's more likely town then?

The thing is, I don't even see any of you/NAA/Urist(?) evaluating srceenplay with the potential that he might be scum. It feels very "locked in" from my perspective.

How are you differentiating town!srceenplay vs scum!srceenplay?

Like, here:

srceenplay wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:24 pm 272
When someone says the feel the same way as me I get the feeling they understand the same thought process as me. As I am town I would not think mafia would had the same thought process as me.

49 Is a troll post and serious. I'm shaded them and at the same time pointing out that if they "ARE" town they don't know anything. It might not be a "great probing question" but it's the style I play. Call out shit I see and randomly through out thoughts/content. Being wrong and bad does not make you mafia in this game. Being right and good does not make you town in this game.

It's just so hard for me to read posts like this and say that this comes from town.

272 - IDK if it's me being pedantic, but townreads from mindmelds don't generally work like this. If someone posts the exact same thing you were thinking of but haven't posted yet, it's a mindmeld and you might townread them. In this case, DrWigly just quoted srceenplay's post and said, "I agree" and srceenplay somehow equates that to a mindmeld. By that very same logic, srceenplay should be townreading Urist, who agrees with him on stuff. Yet srceenplay is voting Urist.

It's just so unnatural to townread someone purely on the basis of them agreeing with your post.

Like, reading srceenplay's mech talk, he seems to be an experienced semi-competent player at the very least, which makes me think that his other posts shouldn't be that hard to vibe with if he were town. But yeah, just not vibing.

I agree with Urist being eliminated today barring further solving progress on my end

The reason I push srceenplay despite everyone who knows him saying he’s town is because

1. I read 2 town games of his and 1 scum game and I honestly didn’t think he was entirely out of his scum range, from my personal view.

2. Reads that are SOLELY meta based are unreliable sometimes. I mean, have you ever misread someone based on meta? Probably. They should be backed up by behavioral reads and other sorts of reads, and I wasn’t seeing that. It’s just a whole bunch of people saying “he’s town, trust us”

3. I recently played a game where I mis-cleared mafia based on meta, and all other townies from my homesite agreed with my meta read. So maybe that’s why I’m cautious. It’s not an impossible situation where multiple people misclear someone based on meta, since well I’ve experienced it before.

4. It would greatly help if you could point out one thing that srceenplay has said or done that is outside his scum range rather than just asking for blind trust.

Re-reading start of D2 for game flow, I think Urist looks scummiest probably, mostly due to

1. Urist starts the day saying that Gav might not be mafia based on NK.
2. When srceenplay says that NAA's change in votes at EOD1 looks bad for NAA, Urist sheeps that and agrees.
3. When srceenplay insinuates that Gav is still mafia, Urist decides to go back to scumreading Gav (#595 - Urist - scumteam is gavial/axehole/fingersplints) (this scum team is kinda wack, I gotta say)
4.

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:16 pm If Gavial were mafia I'd expect someone pushing him to be killed. And if not someone pushing him, probably not the person saying "yeah I think he's a PR" before he's even claimed PR.

I think this misrepresents LP's position on D1. She was one of the biggest pushers on Gav on D1, and her tinfoil hedge was that she thought he could be PR. I even asked her D1 why she was voting Gav despite thinking he could be a PR. She only changed her vote at the very last minute.

If srceenplay and Urist are both scum, Urist just continually sheeping srceenplay at SOD2 is kinda a weird wolf strat.

===

Comparing srceenplay and Urist's response to my question of "why do you think Gav is scum", I think Urist's is worse though srceenplay's is weak also.

Within this question, I'm not really looking for right or wrong answers that align with my own take on Gav.
- Urist's scumread on Gav is
(a) meta read: Gav is not doing his half-baked conspiracy theory thing that he does as town
(b) says Gav is obv wolf

TBH couldn't find much else on Urist's scumread. I think there's a distinct lack in pointing to specific things this game that he's doing that are scummy. Reads that aren't comprehensive tend to be scum indicative.

srceenplay's scumread on Gav is that Gav felt like he was flailing D1 and talks about his thought process D1, which is better.

I think I just find it weird that Gav's behavior checks a lot of the boxes of "conventional townie behavior" and all of that is ignored, especially if you are doing a semi-surface level read. I can understand LP's scumread on Gav since things were substantiated. But if you are just talking general behavior, I think 9 times out of 10, most people would townread Gav for being (1) solvie, (2) proactive, (3) scumhunting.

@Urist @srceenplay and @ anyone else who thinks Gavial is scum

Why do you think Gavial is scum?

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:35 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:34 pm Why do you think Nanook is town?

Never directly stated I do but I was going to if I lived today which I did.


It’s more like I don’t think how Nanook’s been playing and whom is most likely mafia, would make Nanook mafia.

Ah, okay. I think he's independently scummy-ish, but I haven't thought about his posts in the context of the game as a whole yet.

lmao ok

@TonyStarkPrime do you have any reads

Open question

Why do you think Nanook is town?

don't feel great about NANOOK either upon a second skim :\

@Urist

do you have a recent scum game you can link me

[VOTE: srceenplay] aubergine

not super seeing how srceenplay is town here tbh

@NotAnAxehole , if you truly believe srceenplay is town here, I would like to have those reasons articulated

@srceenplay if you would like, do you want to alleviate the concerns I listed out here: https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 67#p874567

Also, would like your reasoning on why you thought it was Gav/Nanook/Nutella on D1.

well I gotta say, that EOD was frustrating

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:54 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:53 pm Gavial not self preserving is weird af though

2 entities know the setup from the start... Mafia, and the town PR. Nothing is guaranteed right now, there is no one clear correct mechanical play, I think that's what people are seeing. So, Urist won't automatically become the top wagon for that reason.

Yeah, I do realize that there's a chance of Gavial being mafia and lying, but I think he is townie independent of claim.

@Gavial

have you breadcrumbed your role anywhere in thread prior to claim?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:53 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:52 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:43 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:39 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm I really wanna vote srceenplay right now.

I think fingersplints/falcon is like, the only viable wagons

NAA townreads srceenplay and prob won't vote srceenplay, so I don't think a srceenplay wagon works.

Urist doesn't seem to be happening? Or idk, maybe it will.

I think opinions on the rest of the people are conflicting or people I don't quite want to elim today.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

It's the best we got at this rate.

Well, I don't think any other wagons are happening ...

If you want, you can prob swap to Urist. That's prob the best chance we have?

Falcon better shot than Urist tbh

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

might as well

Gavial not self preserving is weird af though

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:43 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:39 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm I really wanna vote srceenplay right now.

I think fingersplints/falcon is like, the only viable wagons

NAA townreads srceenplay and prob won't vote srceenplay, so I don't think a srceenplay wagon works.

Urist doesn't seem to be happening? Or idk, maybe it will.

I think opinions on the rest of the people are conflicting or people I don't quite want to elim today.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

It's the best we got at this rate.

Well, I don't think any other wagons are happening ...

If you want, you can prob swap to Urist. That's prob the best chance we have?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:41 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:39 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm I really wanna vote srceenplay right now.

I think fingersplints/falcon is like, the only viable wagons

NAA townreads srceenplay and prob won't vote srceenplay, so I don't think a srceenplay wagon works.

Urist doesn't seem to be happening? Or idk, maybe it will.

I think opinions on the rest of the people are conflicting or people I don't quite want to elim today.

The issue is, I townread Srceenplay and nobody who has the ability to read Srceenplay scum reads him. I suppose all of them could be mafia, but it's just a very specific scenario where Srceenplay is mafia with only Mafia451 players... Seems... Unlikely.

This is a fair point. Who in this game would you say has the ability to read him?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm I really wanna vote srceenplay right now.

I think fingersplints/falcon is like, the only viable wagons

NAA townreads srceenplay and prob won't vote srceenplay, so I don't think a srceenplay wagon works.

Urist doesn't seem to be happening? Or idk, maybe it will.

I think opinions on the rest of the people are conflicting or people I don't quite want to elim today.

Actually nvm, I miscounted

I don't think there are enough people online to make a new wagon and save Gavial

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:23 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:22 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:21 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:04 pm @Cream&Cannoli Enterprises

What are your reads currently?

Sorta off the top of my head

Lime Coke, Gavial, LinearPoint, NAA

nutella

DrWigly

TonyStarkPrime, NANOOK

falcon, Urist

Srceenplay, fingersplints

0 posters
MacDougall, Paopan

I agree on Falcon and fingersplints

^^^^^^^^
This is why we yeet NAA he basically scum reads his town reads purposely.

No, I don't want to chop NAA even if he is anti-town.

We'll find a way to deal with it.

Worse comes to worse, we'll just play around him.

Wow the pressure on me is huge lol

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:04 pm @Cream&Cannoli Enterprises

What are your reads currently?

Sorta off the top of my head

Lime Coke, Gavial, LinearPoint, NAA

nutella

DrWigly

TonyStarkPrime, NANOOK

falcon, Urist

Srceenplay, fingersplints

0 posters
MacDougall, Paopan

TBH I don't see Gavial being mafia but so many people are set on it

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:32 am

Spoiler: show

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:36 pm SELF INTRODUCTION

I am the Cream and the Noli in Cream&Cannoli Enterprise(s).

If you get my vague Catch-22 username reference, you must be thinking, "Oh, Noli! What a minderbinder your name is! You must be a lovely, quaint, literary English major!"

No.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm a massive weeb.

Get it right.

I run everywhere Naruto-style.

I exclusively read otome isekai trash.

People are like, "What is your preferred pronoun?" But no no no. Ask me what my preferred honorary suffix is instead.

My dream is to go to Japan, go to a maid cafe, order an omurice, and have a maid sadistically berate me via ketchup.

I hail from NovelUpdates Forum, where we have collectively decided to quit mafia, go into closed door cultivation, and cultivate the Dao of Reading Thousand-Chapter Novels and Dao of Sudoku.

Through the power of anime, I have a 100% win rate across all sites, if you exclude my losses.

Mafia, fear me.

Town, adore me.

Neat! May I call you CC?

Maybe CCE would be better since CC can be mistaken for counterclaim in mafia lingo.

srceenplay wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:54 pm Probably makes more sense to see if axe hole responds first.

Sure, why not.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:50 pm

Cream&Cannoli Enterprises wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:45 pm I honestly would appreciate it if people did the [VOTE: X] thing in thread when they voted in the poll because it's hard to get a sense of game flow when it's left out, especially when people can't be around 24/7 in the thread.

Also helps with doing VCA later on.

I thought the entire purpose of the poll was to make the game harder to follow.

nah, I think the poll is a popularity contest and currently both you and I are losing