Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[Hyena]

Oh hey, it's HK \o/

Are YOU masons with HK?

Dont rly get why everyone keeps repeating that mac should be sheeped, i understand for nanook but this type of behavior from other people is brand new to me

I was actually calling Mac scum. o: What do you think?

[Hyena]

I'm gonna do it!

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine

Now the three leading wagons are tied again!

[Hyena]

I'm gonna do it!

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine

Now the three leading wagons are tied again!

Oh wait, no. I forgot Martin was one of the leading wagons. Still though!

[Justplayingitcool]

Oh hey, it's HK \o/

Are YOU masons with HK?

Dont rly get why everyone keeps repeating that mac should be sheeped, i understand for nanook but this type of behavior from other people is brand new to me

I was actually calling Mac scum. o: What do you think?

Is this a serious read?

[Hyena]

Oh hey, it's HK \o/

Are YOU masons with HK?

Dont rly get why everyone keeps repeating that mac should be sheeped, i understand for nanook but this type of behavior from other people is brand new to me

I was actually calling Mac scum. o: What do you think?

Is this a serious read?

Yes!

[tutuu]

i think its unlikely

[Justplayingitcool]

Mac hell bussing a teammate sounds absurd and completely unnecessary to do to a teammate on day 1! Mac is like 90% town at this point.

[tutuu]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Jackofhearts2005 wyd

Multigamed.

[tutuu]

And falcon after radish

[Made]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

[Jackofhearts2005]

At me with cases.

[tutuu]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

His name is in there

If ur asking "why not nanook first" - i dont think it will matter if i explain it, chances are my read will get ignored, both in terms of ppl considering my reads since i dont have mac's clout, and also in terms of me coming off as towny as evidenced by my solving effort getting gnored earlier when i was a wagon. So im being pragmatic here sorry friend

[Justplayingitcool]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

His name is in there

If ur asking "why not nanook first" - i dont think it will matter if i explain it, chances are my read will get ignored, both in terms of ppl considering my reads since i dont have mac's clout, and also in terms of me coming off as towny as evidenced by my solving effort getting gnored earlier when i was a wagon. So im being pragmatic here sorry friend

Im not ignoring your reads!

[hollowkatt]

Making decisions based on spite is objectively the best way to play mafia

This strat has actually helped me a couple times as town -- I've found that more often, it's scum that end up pissing me off in the game rather than town!

I've suddenly and unexpectedly found myself in a tunnel - someone feel free to tell me why Made is town so I can get out of it if I need to. (Or come join me - I welcome company.)

Made is town for every reason you just stated that he's scum! Because what you just described is town!me, and it feels like Made has a playstyle similar to mine!

Radishes agrees with me, disagrees with made, still scum reads me

Made agrees with me, disagrees with radishes, still scum reads me


K

Just Mafia things.

this feels kinda town. nanook also feels kinda town.
currently sheeping Tim for reasons

Are you masons with him?

no, but if it would get you to town read me, yes.

Also, that's a bad question to ask, stop doing that.

[Master Radishes]

Mac hell bussing a teammate sounds absurd and completely unnecessary to do to a teammate on day 1! Mac is like 90% town at this point.

Yeah Mac feels town and has done townie things like this and so is just town.

[Marmot]

Sorry Wilgy

How did everyone go from being super townie to super scummy in a single day?

Excuse me, but I believe I stayed at the same mild level of scumminess, thank you.

Nah, you're still just 3P.

[Marmot]

So, I think I kinda want to do this right now:
[VOTE: Made] aubergine

I don't have any good reason for it outside of "hey, let's keep the numbers of the top three wagons close together, because that's always fun!"

This is a pretty good reason, and I recall Made being a good vote.

I don't recall the case on Martin, or have a clue on Nanook

[Master Radishes]

I've suddenly and unexpectedly found myself in a tunnel - someone feel free to tell me why Made is town so I can get out of it if I need to. (Or come join me - I welcome company.)

Made is town for every reason you just stated that he's scum! Because what you just described is town!me, and it feels like Made has a playstyle similar to mine!

Normally I might accept this sort of logic, as I do the same thing when reading certain other players too, but I guess the problem here is I don't really townread you to begin with.

Also, based on my previous experience of you and Made I'm not sure I agree you guys have a particularly similar playstyle. Not, like, vastly different I guess, but I can't say I made this connection on my own and have only started considering it since you think so.

[Marmot]

catchup first, then to go jog my memory

[Justplayingitcool]

EoD1 Wagon Reads Revised (for my own note taking)

Change log:
- moved Long Con to townreads
- moved Wilgy to scumreads
- moved TSP to scumreads

--------------------

Confirmed Town
Townreads
Don't care/Null/2 Bored 2 Read/I forgot
Scumreads
Confirmed Scum

Cat(10): Nute, Nanook, Tutuu, Made, Ted, Falcon, Mac, Tim, Dizzy, Marmot
Falcon(7): Thunal, Cat, Martin, Long Con, Wilgy, JPIC, Radish
Thunal(3): Dya, TSP, Michelle
Hyena(2): Sloonei, Kylemii
Nutella(2): Syn, Jack
Marmot(1): 112
Ted(1): Hyena

What did mac do to go from a null to a scumread in your eyes?

[Marmot]

Sorry Wilgy

How did everyone go from being super townie to super scummy in a single day?

i feel the opposite lol

It was more of a joke that no one said anything for several days.

[hollowkatt]

FYI I AM MASONS WITH EVERYONE

[Timsup2nothin]

5-6-5

This wagon formation always kills a wolf, except when it kills a townie.

I think we are on a track. Which is probably a good track.

Okay, going back to sleep.

[Marmot]

and for nutella, i think i flipped my read on wilgy and you may be looking at 2 villagers

don’t really get why there “has” to be one in us two for “chilling” and why it can’t just be like every other syndicate village game where I’ve done ~nothing early on

as for wilgy, i think my case was a bit stretchy upon review

There's been a lot of chilling this game. Apparently your chilling is not the right flavor.

[hollowkatt]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

how about why mr nanook?

[hollowkatt]

5-6-5

This wagon formation always kills a wolf, except when it kills a townie.

I think we are on a track. Which is probably a good track.

Okay, going back to sleep.

Hi Tim! Where are the wolves in your opinion?
Also we're apparently masons but also not masons but also I'm a mason with radish but I'm also not. According to Hyena anyways.

[Marmot]

@cat what is your point in making note of my post count?

I personally don't remember pretty much anything you've done. And you have a lot of posts.
So i thought it would be funny to point it out since you are doing the same thing.

I don't think Syn would keep pushing Nute if he was wolfing, so there's that

I don't understand the logic, please elaborate

nute's obvtown

Why? Can you explain their meta? I'd say nutella is uncomfortable in the thread.

How much have you read?

Most of it, but i've skimmed when it got too memey.

I don't think Sloonei and cat are aligned, feels like lack of TMI to ask a partner this question.

I don't really see that, but Sloonei is probably just town anyway.

[Timsup2nothin]

FYI I AM MASONS WITH EVERYONE

WTF?

Who let the Katt in?

[Marmot]

I wanna kill Tedxtr and made the most

And you can! With our brand new product Scum-B-Gone!

We've updated our formula to eradicate twice as much scum as before. That's right!! 200% more scum gone with just one application of yeet!

Don't let scum skate by in your mafia games. Try our Scum-B-Gone, and get your scum gone.

[Timsup2nothin]

5-6-5

This wagon formation always kills a wolf, except when it kills a townie.

I think we are on a track. Which is probably a good track.

Okay, going back to sleep.

Hi Tim! Where are the wolves in your opinion?
Also we're apparently masons but also not masons but also I'm a mason with radish but I'm also not. According to Hyena anyways.

Mac made one of his associatives cases day one, which I hated because preflip associatives, but went with because I had nothing to offer. So we chopped Cat, who was indeed a wolf. The other half of the associative was Made...so I started day 2 with "either I can try to sort this out or we can just chop Made." I opted not to sort anything out, so I'm just sheeping Mac's case that already chopped one wolf and following through on chopping Made.

I have no idea what these other wagons are about.

[Marmot]

Not to pull a tutu but

Is there a point in me trying or naw?

If not I’ll just drop a dope legacy before EOD that will surely get ignored

Lol

[hollowkatt]

FYI I AM MASONS WITH EVERYONE

WTF?

Who let the Katt in?

I'm here by special request!

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

@Sloonei
Nanook - I'm gravitating towards scumreading him now. Friendo hasn't engaged me directly at all D1. I feel like he doesn't care about what happens to me in game. He's someone that I believe has a good read on me in general. He wouldn't just sit back and and let me get townread or scumread -- he'd get involved in the discussion, methinks.
Syn - I never got a response to my question. Marmot caught on what I was trying to suggest though. Basically, how I interpreted Syn's post to Tim about him not having a read on me because he hasn't read the game was that Syn has read the game and that he DOES have a read on me. Haven't seen it though.

I TR you and you haven’t been in actual danger so

No need to go hard in your defense

Especially with the claim throwing me off

given tim's play, pretty good odds

I was somewhat astonished that the answer to "who tilted Nanook" was not "Syn did it."

Idt syn’s ever tilted me

Me neither but he tries constantly and I like to encourage him to think he may be effective someday.

Any idea why Nutella has him so far down the list?

I assume cause he’s syn and he lives in the low-middle of readslists

I’ve never seen syn not get POE’d but he’s a very good town player

Syn how mad would you be if we towncored you

i would stop posting as revenge and rob you guys of my oversized intellect and solving

That seems like the only appropriate reaction

My reads are the same as they were yesterday

Literally no changes

Gimme the link please, I want to read them

Tim/Mac/nutella/syn/jack/hyena/tsp/thun

Idk if I posted them in one place before and it’s easier to consult my notes anyways

I went down a really fun rabbit hole. right now I'm calling it "syn and nanook are teammates and we should vote them, unless they're just really good friends, but still we should chop nanook."

It's a working title.

@Master Radishes keep my name out cha mouth

No one who’s voted me has read any of my iso, I can almost guarantee it

I've not read your full iso, but I have read some of your iso, at one point in time.

I just remember cat associations, and your disappearance after the case came down on cat.


If I have the energy today I'll give it a look, but I dunno if I will.

[hollowkatt]

5-6-5

This wagon formation always kills a wolf, except when it kills a townie.

I think we are on a track. Which is probably a good track.

Okay, going back to sleep.

Hi Tim! Where are the wolves in your opinion?
Also we're apparently masons but also not masons but also I'm a mason with radish but I'm also not. According to Hyena anyways.

Mac made one of his associatives cases day one, which I hated because preflip associatives, but went with because I had nothing to offer. So we chopped Cat, who was indeed a wolf. The other half of the associative was Made...so I started day 2 with "either I can try to sort this out or we can just chop Made." I opted not to sort anything out, so I'm just sheeping Mac's case that already chopped one wolf and following through on chopping Made.

I have no idea what these other wagons are about.

good enough for me, also read some cat ISO posts talking about made, seems bad for made.

[Timsup2nothin]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

how about why mr nanook?

How about just not Nanook. There are a number of "feelie readers" who have expressed that Nanook "doesn't feel right." As far as I've seen (and admittedly I haven't gone looking) these feelie reads haven't even gone to "feels wrong"...just "doesn't feel right." My conversations with Nanook when he has happened to be around at the same time I was have gotten me the absolutely NAI nothing I expect from Nanook, so I see no reason for an early chop there.

[Made]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

how about why mr nanook?

How about just not Nanook. There are a number of "feelie readers" who have expressed that Nanook "doesn't feel right." As far as I've seen (and admittedly I haven't gone looking) these feelie reads haven't even gone to "feels wrong"...just "doesn't feel right." My conversations with Nanook when he has happened to be around at the same time I was have gotten me the absolutely NAI nothing I expect from Nanook, so I see no reason for an early chop there.

if not feelie reads, what do you prefer?

[Made]

Spoiler: show

@Sloonei
Nanook - I'm gravitating towards scumreading him now. Friendo hasn't engaged me directly at all D1. I feel like he doesn't care about what happens to me in game. He's someone that I believe has a good read on me in general. He wouldn't just sit back and and let me get townread or scumread -- he'd get involved in the discussion, methinks.
Syn - I never got a response to my question. Marmot caught on what I was trying to suggest though. Basically, how I interpreted Syn's post to Tim about him not having a read on me because he hasn't read the game was that Syn has read the game and that he DOES have a read on me. Haven't seen it though.

I TR you and you haven’t been in actual danger so

No need to go hard in your defense

Especially with the claim throwing me off

I was somewhat astonished that the answer to "who tilted Nanook" was not "Syn did it."

Idt syn’s ever tilted me

Me neither but he tries constantly and I like to encourage him to think he may be effective someday.

Any idea why Nutella has him so far down the list?

I assume cause he’s syn and he lives in the low-middle of readslists

I’ve never seen syn not get POE’d but he’s a very good town player

Syn how mad would you be if we towncored you

i would stop posting as revenge and rob you guys of my oversized intellect and solving

That seems like the only appropriate reaction

My reads are the same as they were yesterday

Literally no changes

Gimme the link please, I want to read them

Tim/Mac/nutella/syn/jack/hyena/tsp/thun

Idk if I posted them in one place before and it’s easier to consult my notes anyways

I went down a really fun rabbit hole. right now I'm calling it "syn and nanook are teammates and we should vote them, unless they're just really good friends, but still we should chop nanook."

It's a working title.

@Master Radishes keep my name out cha mouth

No one who’s voted me has read any of my iso, I can almost guarantee it

I've not read your full iso, but I have read some of your iso, at one point in time.

I just remember cat associations, and your disappearance after the case came down on cat.


If I have the energy today I'll give it a look, but I dunno if I will.

in case you missed it when I said it before, I was the second person to vote Cat, and I left thread and didn't come back cuz I thought the day ended later. If i were bad, it wouldn't of been hard to move my vote off of cat and make the vote closer. My team could of even reminded me to vote for falcon in the group chat if I forgot. Please take these things in mind if you haven't already.

[Made]

Also, just so I can understand the logic going forward, why would a player vote their teammate and then ghost thread?

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

I think that Nanook is bad because of Syn, but not necessarily bad with Syn

@Sloonei
Nanook - I'm gravitating towards scumreading him now. Friendo hasn't engaged me directly at all D1. I feel like he doesn't care about what happens to me in game. He's someone that I believe has a good read on me in general. He wouldn't just sit back and and let me get townread or scumread -- he'd get involved in the discussion, methinks.
Syn - I never got a response to my question. Marmot caught on what I was trying to suggest though. Basically, how I interpreted Syn's post to Tim about him not having a read on me because he hasn't read the game was that Syn has read the game and that he DOES have a read on me. Haven't seen it though.

I TR you and you haven’t been in actual danger so

No need to go hard in your defense

Especially with the claim throwing me off

I don't really agree with Hyena's read of Nanook here. In Bread, Nanook was very content on getting me chopped pretty much all game. He wouldn't defend other people, even if he figured they were town. I feel like not getting involved in brawls that don't involve him is closer to Nanook's Meta. BUT, he defends Hyena's read as accurate (which it could be. I'm not a Nanook meta expert or anything). I find it scummy that he accepts this read of his meta as 100% accurate without any sass and addendums. it's scummy to avoid conflicts (like the kinda a disagreement on meta might produce) in hopes of the person backs down from their case

given tim's play, pretty good odds

I was somewhat astonished that the answer to "who tilted Nanook" was not "Syn did it."

Idt syn’s ever tilted me

Me neither but he tries constantly and I like to encourage him to think he may be effective someday.

Any idea why Nutella has him so far down the list?

I assume cause he’s syn and he lives in the low-middle of readslists

this post and the following post show Nanook saying that Syn is typically a fairly shiftier player regardless of alightment

I’ve never seen syn not get POE’d but he’s a very good town player

...and despite that, Nanook claims that Syn is a very good town player even in POE. To me, Nanook means something along the lines of that when it matter, Syn will show to be town. But, Nanook goes further than that here:

Syn how mad would you be if we towncored you

i would stop posting as revenge and rob you guys of my oversized intellect and solving

That seems like the only appropriate reaction

while obviously they're both joking here, the premise of Nanook's joke is kinda odd. He's floating that he thinks syn could be towncore this game--which means he thinks he looks at least a little townie. But that's a bit of a paradox, like what reason would Nanook ever have to think a shifty player like Syn is probably town?

My reads are the same as they were yesterday

Literally no changes

Gimme the link please, I want to read them

Tim/Mac/nutella/syn/jack/hyena/tsp/thun

Idk if I posted them in one place before and it’s easier to consult my notes anyways

He then goes to put Syn where he belongs, middle low part of reads. But he thinks Syn in townie? That's sus.
Even past that, I feel like Nanook's willingness to post reads here is kinda weird. What I wouldn't had given to get this kind of straight forward interaction from Nanook in Bread Mafia. I also just don't like the sentences that follows his reads list. It just reads off to me. It's the kinda of thing I'd say if I knew something (in this case, the something known is the opaqueness of his reads) but don't want to make a big deal out of it. I think that's kinda apologetic perspective is weird coming from Nanook. Of course, you can play mafia however you want, but the way Nanook is playing feels more like it's for an audience. In terms of baddie intent and agenda--specifically in how he's talks about Syn-- I think he's either trying to pocket Syn, who seems to know him well, or Syn's his teammate.


Got rid of the spoilers cuz i'm lowkey proud of this take

Spoilering it again because it's too big.

Did Nanook say his list was an ordered one? Also, you started this with saying you disagree with hyena's read on Nanook (which is a scumread), but are also drawing associations between Nanook and Syn saying they are scum, although perhaps you're disagree with the content of the read, and not necessarily the alignment. Also, there's a disconnect in saying that avoiding brawls is closer to Nanook's meta, and then stating a reason you suspect him is that he is avoiding conflict.

I disagree with Nanook on Syn and don't see an obvious reason to townread TSP or Jack, but that's a separate concern. Hee ho.

[Timsup2nothin]

Also, just so I can understand the logic going forward, why would a player vote their teammate and then ghost thread?

Because Cat was a goner so busing was the order of the day?

[Marmot]

Also, just so I can understand the logic going forward, why would a player vote their teammate and then ghost thread?

Iirc, your vote came at a time when cat was not in danger.

As for why you ghosted, I dunno. Why did you not return?

[Marmot]

Why do you think my reads were ordered

I actually wasn't sure on that. Was that your town list? Your baddie list? A rainbow read list?

List of town

Not ordered

Do you have a list of scumreads?

[hollowkatt]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

how about why mr nanook?

How about just not Nanook. There are a number of "feelie readers" who have expressed that Nanook "doesn't feel right." As far as I've seen (and admittedly I haven't gone looking) these feelie reads haven't even gone to "feels wrong"...just "doesn't feel right." My conversations with Nanook when he has happened to be around at the same time I was have gotten me the absolutely NAI nothing I expect from Nanook, so I see no reason for an early chop there.

I'm totally down for realies over feelies, so if the case vs nanook is "feels not right" I'm going to ignore it.

[Made]

Okay, I'm not gonna run this back and forth cuz doing so is only gonna get me more votes, so I'll just say it's worth considering the hypothetical situation where I'm town, voted cat, and didn't come back to thread

[hollowkatt]

I would chop martin and then master radish before considering made or nanook or dizzy

why not Mr.Nanook?

how about why mr nanook?

How about just not Nanook. There are a number of "feelie readers" who have expressed that Nanook "doesn't feel right." As far as I've seen (and admittedly I haven't gone looking) these feelie reads haven't even gone to "feels wrong"...just "doesn't feel right." My conversations with Nanook when he has happened to be around at the same time I was have gotten me the absolutely NAI nothing I expect from Nanook, so I see no reason for an early chop there.

if not feelie reads, what do you prefer?

Speaking for myself, feelies are only good to either start suspicion, or to add to an existing case. I want to see posts where nanook is making mistakes, or posts where someone is pushing and the reaction is bad, not comments about how he doesn't feel right.

[Marmot]

Idt I’ve been floating through the thread so much as just not present for large chunks of it

Maybe that’s the same thing tho idk

Why am I vibing with this?

I've definitely missed a post or two.

But definitely no more than two.

[hollowkatt]

Also, just so I can understand the logic going forward, why would a player vote their teammate and then ghost thread?

:towncred:

[hollowkatt]

Okay, I'm not gonna run this back and forth cuz doing so is only gonna get me more votes, so I'll just say it's worth considering the hypothetical situation where I'm town, voted cat, and didn't come back to thread

Why do you think you can't be w/w with cat? Like show don't tell

[Made]

Also, just so I can understand the logic going forward, why would a player vote their teammate and then ghost thread?

:towncred:

not sure if this is sarcasm?