Game of Champions 2020 [ENDGAME]

[nutella]

Wilgy and hyena are okish for now. Tabling Nanook as usual. Radish is my only wolf read.

Explain.

Wilgy and hyena are okish

Tabling Nanook for now

Radish is my only wolf read

don't like this- it was a fair question

Well I'm busy and on mobile and don't feel like elaborating on players I've talked about already

Wilgy and hyena felt better overnight in my catchup that's all

You've said nothing that comes close to explaining why I am your 'only' wolf read.

I townread everyone else? What more explanation do you need lol

[Made]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

i mean keep in mind, baddies have incentive to baddie hut. There are multiple balls in play



mine is red this game

[Master Radishes]

Wilgy and hyena are okish for now. Tabling Nanook as usual. Radish is my only wolf read.

Explain.

Wilgy and hyena are okish

Tabling Nanook for now

Radish is my only wolf read

don't like this- it was a fair question

Well I'm busy and on mobile and don't feel like elaborating on players I've talked about already

Wilgy and hyena felt better overnight in my catchup that's all

You've said nothing that comes close to explaining why I am your 'only' wolf read.

I townread everyone else? What more explanation do you need lol

That's nowhere near good enough. That just makes me null/PoE. It does not justify a solid wolf read on me considering I'm doing what I always do in terms of slanking off D1.

Give me a rundown on what I've done that is scummy when you get a chance.

[nutella]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I'm not disguising anything. I found your exchange with falcon a bad look and agree with others on a gut scumread on you. Nook and wilgy are different.

[Master Radishes]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

i mean keep in mind, baddies have incentive to baddie hut. There are multiple balls in play



mine is red this game

That's fine - I'm not saying I'm obv town yet or anything.

I'm just pointing out Nutella is likely a wolf.

[Justplayingitcool]

Not a fan of sloonei in that exchange with Tim.

[Made]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

i mean keep in mind, baddies have incentive to baddie hut. There are multiple balls in play



mine is red this game

That's fine - I'm not saying I'm obv town yet or anything.

I'm just pointing out Nutella is likely a wolf.

nah, what i'm saying is Nutella having one wolf read doesn't have to be AI. She could think your bad as a wolfie, but also as town

[nutella]

Radish: "I'm doing what I always do"

Not a sufficient defense lmao. My gut tells me you are off and you're falling back on stylistic defense but I'm saying your style feels different.

[nutella]

You're not slanking off at all. You're getting in this petty argument now and getting pretty engaged and it smells wrong

[Master Radishes]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I'm not disguising anything. I found your exchange with falcon a bad look and agree with others on a gut scumread on you. Nook and wilgy are different.

Here's how you've decided to cast a vote for me so far:

[VOTE: master of all radishes] aubergine

yolo

Anyway feelin cute might fuck around and [VOTE: master radishes] aubergine

Both times you're affecting a light-hearted attitude. And yet apparently you have a serious read on me. Your tone is incongruous to your purported read.

[Master Radishes]

You're not slanking off at all. You're getting in this petty argument now and getting pretty engaged and it smells wrong

It's not petty. I think the way you've handled me has been opportunistic.

[nutella]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I'm not disguising anything. I found your exchange with falcon a bad look and agree with others on a gut scumread on you. Nook and wilgy are different.

Here's how you've decided to cast a vote for me so far:

[VOTE: master of all radishes] aubergine

yolo

Anyway feelin cute might fuck around and [VOTE: master radishes] aubergine

Both times you're affecting a light-hearted attitude. And yet apparently you have a serious read on me. Your tone is incongruous to your purported read.

Bro you've played with me a hundred times this cannot be a real take lmfao

[nutella]

Thats just how I give reads

[Master Radishes]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I'm not disguising anything. I found your exchange with falcon a bad look and agree with others on a gut scumread on you. Nook and wilgy are different.

Here's how you've decided to cast a vote for me so far:

[VOTE: master of all radishes] aubergine

yolo

Anyway feelin cute might fuck around and [VOTE: master radishes] aubergine

Both times you're affecting a light-hearted attitude. And yet apparently you have a serious read on me. Your tone is incongruous to your purported read.

Bro you've played with me a hundred times this cannot be a real take lmfao

Actually not very much tbh. Just feels like it.

I'm not saying it doesn't fit your overall 'style' of play. I'm saying it doesn't fit your other words within this same game.

[112]

nute not buckling... but MR raising some good points... watching diligently

[Made]

the only reason a baddie has to accuse someone in bad faith this game is if their teammate is under attack, find the defended teammate and you find the baddie

[nutella]

You're not slanking off at all. You're getting in this petty argument now and getting pretty engaged and it smells wrong

It's not petty. I think the way you've handled me has been opportunistic.

It's not opportunistic. That's an empty accusation. I think you are scum and you feel caught for the wrong reasons. Like yeah I have a gut read I can't explain well, and you're upset you can't respond to reasons but your reactions here just make you look worse.

[Master Radishes]

nute not buckling... but MR raising some good points... watching diligently

Is this a camoflauged 'this argument is v/v' read?

[nutella]

Who are your other strongest reads in both directions radish?

[Justplayingitcool]

I feel very positive in MR town

[Master Radishes]

You're not slanking off at all. You're getting in this petty argument now and getting pretty engaged and it smells wrong

It's not petty. I think the way you've handled me has been opportunistic.

It's not opportunistic. That's an empty accusation. I think you are scum and you feel caught for the wrong reasons. Like yeah I have a gut read I can't explain well, and you're upset you can't respond to reasons but your reactions here just make you look worse.

It's not caught for the wrong reasons. That's an empty accusation. I think you are scum and have been caught being opportunistic. Like yeah I have a gut read I can't explain well, and you're upset you can't respond to reasons but your reactions here just make you look worse.

[Master Radishes]

Who are your other strongest reads in both directions radish?

Dunno.

[112]

nute not buckling... but MR raising some good points... watching diligently

Is this a camoflauged 'this argument is v/v' read?

that's my initial thought

[nutella]

Look I don't want to draw this out into a tunnely back and forth. I will listen and consider. Im just saying my read on you is as real as any strong gut read I get early game, and I'm often right on those.

[nutella]

I feel very positive in MR town

why?

[nutella]

nute not buckling... but MR raising some good points... watching diligently

Is this a camoflauged 'this argument is v/v' read?

that's my initial thought

Could be

[Thunal33]

I actually have met a dog named Marmot, unlike the rest of these names.

I think you're at least a better dog name than Cat.

[nutella]

You're not slanking off at all. You're getting in this petty argument now and getting pretty engaged and it smells wrong

It's not petty. I think the way you've handled me has been opportunistic.

It's not opportunistic. That's an empty accusation. I think you are scum and you feel caught for the wrong reasons. Like yeah I have a gut read I can't explain well, and you're upset you can't respond to reasons but your reactions here just make you look worse.

It's not caught for the wrong reasons. That's an empty accusation. I think you are scum and have been caught being opportunistic. Like yeah I have a gut read I can't explain well, and you're upset you can't respond to reasons but your reactions here just make you look worse.

Tbh this sass is a village point

[Master Radishes]

Look I don't want to draw this out into a tunnely back and forth. I will listen and consider. Im just saying my read on you is as real as any strong gut read I get early game, and I'm often right on those.

I mean I agree, this sort of thing just derails the thread if it goes on too long. We've made our points.

[Justplayingitcool]

I feel very positive in MR town

why?

His reaction comes across as pretty genuine to me and doesn’t feel faked

[112]

I will say that it looks like Nute is turning the back-and-forth into a "look, maybe you're town" when the start of the conversation was more centred around MR thinking she's wolfing. It's possible she's trying to placate.

[nutella]

I will say that it looks like Nute is turning the back-and-forth into a "look, maybe you're town" when the start of the conversation was more centred around MR thinking she's wolfing. It's possible she's trying to placate.

Lol I knew someone would say something like this

[Timsup2nothin]

the only reason a baddie has to accuse someone in bad faith this game is if their teammate is under attack, find the defended teammate and you find the baddie

This is wise.

[nutella]

Yeah obviously showing any hesitation that my scumread might be town means it wasn't a real suspicion to begin with

[nutella]

I get called out for being "opportunistic" almost every town game it's kinda funny

[Thunal33]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I don't think she's given a pass to Nanook at all. Also I dislike that you're pushing Nutella because she kind of is obvtown at this point (when I've seen her wolf she hasn't had nearly as much conviction and aggressiveness as she does as town) and I feel like the reasons you're using of "why is Nut only scumreading me for low content this is unfair" can easily come from scum.

[Justplayingitcool]

Tim, what’s your take on the MR/nutella fisticuffs?

[112]

I will say that it looks like Nute is turning the back-and-forth into a "look, maybe you're town" when the start of the conversation was more centred around MR thinking she's wolfing. It's possible she's trying to placate.

Lol I knew someone would say something like this

guilty mindset?

[nutella]

Like yeah sometimes I tag onto other people's wolf reads because it draws my attention to that person and then I realize they are scummy. It doesn't make it not real lol

[Timsup2nothin]

I will say that it looks like Nute is turning the back-and-forth into a "look, maybe you're town" when the start of the conversation was more centred around MR thinking she's wolfing. It's possible she's trying to placate.

Kinda my feeling, but I'm concerned that I'm starting to conf bias.

[Sloonei]

Hyena Beef(s)

First, and briefly, I haven't cared for Hyena's handling of me so far. It started here:

Mac is mafia, actually.

Yours and Mac's distancing strats won't work on me.

The emoji suggests this isn't meant to be taken super seriously, but it still exists and it follows a post where Hyena had specifically mentioned that Mac and I were outside of their towncore. So there are authentic non-town reads on both Sloonei and MacDougall here. Whether or not they're linked in any way is unclear, but this post at least playfully raises the issue. I don't like the suggestion at face value (pre-flip associatives, etc.), and the emoji feels like it could be a safety blanket for wolf hyena to fall back on to avoid harsh criticism for this read.

So, why does Hyena regard me as a suspect?

Okay, for real though? Sloonei is mafia. He's the only one that seems to not be joking around with any of us at the moment. He seems very uncomfortable at the moment, which I also take to mean that he doesn't have any teammates that are active right now. Make a note who's joking around right now.

I was not joking around at a time when I was not fully present in the thread. This type of observation is not unfair to make, but I reject its applicability to me. I was doing other things at the time, and I announced to the thread that this was the case shortly after the time of Hyena's initial accusation, and it's not like Tom Brady is known for his sense of humor anyway. But Hyena said their thing before I announced my departure, so that's at least not unfair. What is less fair is that they have held onto the specific suspicion as things have progressed:

Okay, for real though? Sloonei is mafia. He's the only one that seems to not be joking around with any of us at the moment. He seems very uncomfortable at the moment, which I also take to mean that he doesn't have any teammates that are active right now. Make a note who's joking around right now.

I’m not here. This isn’t happening.

You were here.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

This is not much. It's only enough to merit a slight eyeroll from me. But it grows into something a little more here:

Sloonei, as far as my scumread on you goes, it started off as a couple pings here and there, but then this happened:

i dont need to case it so much, you are asking way too much of me and i have no reason to put so much effort into answering such a vague question any further than i have

This is twice already that you’ve responded to token SlooneiProds by telling me essentially to knock it off. That’s not always an unfair response. My questions can be overbearing, and sometimes that’s partially the point. It was the first time. But this time I feel like I am asking a pair of straightforward and reasonable questions as part of an early dialogue in the game. I do not think my questions are vague at all, and I am not trying to be difficult.

You said you think Mac looks different than he usually does. I don’t see it and am asking for elaboration. Maybe there’s a linguistic divide here. I am struggling with your assertion that Mac “isn’t trying to be taken seriously” as part of your accusation. I see the behavior you are pointing to but I don’t see A) why it’s unusual for him, B) why he would need to be trying to be taken seriously as town, or C) what precisely it means if he is not trying to be taken seriously. There are lots of motives for floating less-than-serious reads on Day 0/1 of a game, for instance.

I've got my own reasoning why Mac feels different this game if you want to hear it.

Yes

Mac is half-assing his prodding around. I feel like he's trying to make it look like that he's trying to get people to react to him (hence why I was saying he was trying to impersonate me), but isn't actually trying to since his bait is not believable. Like compare his accusations to the one I made against you -- which felt more real/believable to you?

And then I don't remember any sort of response from you. That made me feel like your interaction with Tutuu here wasn't really about Mac here. Otherwise, I think you would've continued talking to me about Mac, either defending him more or kinda agreeing with me or something. That means to me that you just wanted to push on Tutuu, who from my perspective seemed a little overwhelmed at the moment?

It's fine for Hyena to want a response to the Mac post. I would have gladly given one had I seen it. But I didn't see it. I'd said that I was out of the thread when Hyena made the initial post, and they acknowledged my absence in another post. And yet they are still holding it against me that I did not respond to this post at the time. That's at least partially bogus. Maybe I'm being harsh because, if it was me, I would have just re-prodded them for a response at a later time rather than sitting in silent suspicion. But I didn't like this. And as far as I can tell, Hyena remains suspicious of me for no other reason than this. If there is more to it, it has gone unstated. Their most recent post suggests I am still a suspect, and no new line of suspicion has been given.

But all of the above is not my biggest beef with Hyena. I care more about their response to suspicion last night. To be clear, I am not commenting here about what that suspicion was, who was responsible for it, how widespread it was, etc. I am only talking about what Hyena said when prompted to talk about it:

@Hyena what do you think of the recent suspicion against you?

I feel like I'm being reaction tested right now, to be honest. I don't believe anyone is seriously suspecting me at the moment.

"I feel like I'm being reaction tested" is a quick way to discredit any arguments that could be made against you without actually addressing them (quick aside RE: the emoji thing from earlier, it looks like Hyena just likes using emojis to soften their posts. I'll strike that initial point from the record, your honor). As we go further, Hyena's response continues to be "I don't think they really suspect me." It may be the case that there is not a concrete argument against Hyena floating at this time, but I don't think that's necessarily an indication that the suspicion is anything less than genuine. I could also see an argument that the claim about being "reaction tested" as opposed to a suggestion that any of these people are fabricating reads/being opportunistic as a sort of admission of guilt. But if we're in a multiball game, that argument loses some merit. And it's not very strong to begin with. But I want to at least make note of the semantics here.

Hyena's response continues to deal with people town-reading them, but this still is not what my issue is. Yes, not everybody in the thread was suspicious of Hyena at the time, and yes several people had expressed multiple reads on Hyena as well. But there was a flurry of suspicion directed at them which struck me in real time as authentic, genuine, and spontaneous. Hyena brushed it off as a widespread reaction test from several people all at once, apparently. And that specific reaction does not sit well with me.

Now having said all of that, it would be groovy if we had a more concrete summary of the suspicion that existed against Hyena at the time. I remember trying to get some hot gossip out of Wilgy at the time to no avail. I don't know if Mac or nutella ever gave us a clear argument either. Tutuu agreed with my take on the "reaction test" response, but prior to that had just plopped a reactionary vote, as far as I recall.

[Master Radishes]

I will say that it looks like Nute is turning the back-and-forth into a "look, maybe you're town" when the start of the conversation was more centred around MR thinking she's wolfing. It's possible she's trying to placate.

Lol I knew someone would say something like this

I didn't want to.

[nutella]

I will say that it looks like Nute is turning the back-and-forth into a "look, maybe you're town" when the start of the conversation was more centred around MR thinking she's wolfing. It's possible she's trying to placate.

Lol I knew someone would say something like this

guilty mindset?

I mean kinda yeah, this is the first town game in a while I've been this seriously suspected in early game and it's having a bit of a gaslighting effect

[Justplayingitcool]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I don't think she's given a pass to Nanook at all. Also I dislike that you're pushing Nutella because she kind of is obvtown at this point (when I've seen her wolf she hasn't had nearly as much conviction and aggressiveness as she does as town) and I feel like the reasons you're using of "why is Nut only scumreading me for low content this is unfair" can easily come from scum.

Nutella is obv town?

[Master Radishes]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I don't think she's given a pass to Nanook at all. Also I dislike that you're pushing Nutella because she kind of is obvtown at this point (when I've seen her wolf she hasn't had nearly as much conviction and aggressiveness as she does as town) and I feel like the reasons you're using of "why is Nut only scumreading me for low content this is unfair" can easily come from scum.

Not to start a new argument, but she literally said she's tabling Nanook, i.e. putting off reading him. That's a pass.

Also disagree on w!Nutella tbh. She's aggressive when scumming too ime.

[Thunal33]

I will say that it looks like Nute is turning the back-and-forth into a "look, maybe you're town" when the start of the conversation was more centred around MR thinking she's wolfing. It's possible she's trying to placate.

You said Nut was obvtown earlier, do you still townread her?

[nutella]

Damn sloonei just had to drop a huge wall in the middle of our convo

[nutella]

Break for reading that i guess

[Thunal33]

My issue with Nutella here is that I've had basically no content as is normal for me, and yet somehow she's giving a pass to other posters with similar reps (Nanook, Wilgy, et al) and apparently can't formulate any better reads on people with far more content. I am her *only* wolf read, and all I've done is shitpost as usual. My one bit of content, at a stretch, is a mild and brief back and forth with falcon where I felt he was being hedgey and forcing a push on me (and I stand by that, though I don't know it's AI for him) and that's apaprently enough to have her decide I am not only a wolf but her *only* wolf so far.

It's an opportunistic nudge and she's not disguising it well enough.

I don't think she's given a pass to Nanook at all. Also I dislike that you're pushing Nutella because she kind of is obvtown at this point (when I've seen her wolf she hasn't had nearly as much conviction and aggressiveness as she does as town) and I feel like the reasons you're using of "why is Nut only scumreading me for low content this is unfair" can easily come from scum.

Nutella is obv town?

I think so. She doesn't replicate her town meta that well as wolf ime and doesn't have the same conviction. She's felt less comfortable and almost aimless the last couple times I saw her wolf.

[Timsup2nothin]

I get called out for being "opportunistic" almost every town game it's kinda funny

Nutella, I've been in a game or two where you wolfed and you got flat caught for being opportunistic. I can believe that you have incentive to make opportunism a feature in your town play to make it NAI. I can also believe that it is just something you do and is genuinely NAI. But you might wanna not laugh it off because in just my short time I have seen it getting you sussed both correctly and incorrectly, so maybe you wanna just jettison it?